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Thread: Please Help me, log file attached

  1. #1
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    Please Help me, log file attached

    2004 Mercury Mountaineer AWD 4.0L Flex Fuel. Started to idle crap and stall when warm. It's my daughters car and she got stranded. When I arrived it started fine and I drove it home to work on it. IF you are driving it seems to be okay, when you slow down close to idle it becomes a problem. I have chased my tail for nearly 2 weeks. I have changed EGR, Throttle Body, Injectors, PCV Valve, MAF, Intake Manifold Seals, Fuel Pressure Sensor, Plugs, Coil Pack, Plug Wires, Cam Sensor, Crankshaft Sensor, fuel filter, changed oil and oil filter. I have done a compression tests (while cold) and all cylinders are at 190 psi. There are never any DTC 's.

    When it is cold it idles fine with near zero short term fuel trims. As it warms up, takes about 10 minutes in these cold temperatures, the short term fuel trims start to climb progressively up to 50-60% and then it starts missing and stalls. I have a ballenger wideband in the exhaust to check what AFR I really have. It shows close to stoichimetric and then as the STFT start to get worse and worse it eventually looses control and goes very lean. I have all vacuum/air sources to the intake blanked off (PCV, EVAP, CRANKCASE VENTIALLATION, Accessories). I even have a blanking gasket plate to stop EGR exhaust flow. I have sprayed starting fluid and propane all around the intake, no effect. After it goes into this mode it is difficult to get started after that, it always stalls, even if I disconnect the battery and do the PCM reset procedure (postive to negative jumper for a few minutes) before starting. Fuel pressure always looks good so I have not considered changing the fuel pump.

    When the fuel trims get bad, before it gets to the stall point you can see form the log I raise the rpm and the fuel trims adjust down somewhat, but never close to zero. As soon as you go back to idle they quickly go back to very high.

    One thing in the log that caught my eye is the commanded fuel pump DC value. It is mostly at 18.5% and roughly when the STFT's starts to increase ( I assume to compensate for a lean O2 condition) then the fuel pump is being commanded to progressively smaller values. The seems odd to me. I assume that the fuel pump is being commanded to smaller values becuase the fuel pressure (PSI) is staying at 39psi and therefore it thinks it can slow it down. It's interesting that slowing the fuel pump correlates to the progressivley leaner condition, The confusing part is that the fuel pressure stays high. Is the fuel % DC command purely related to fuel pressure and do I have a bad pressure fuel sensor (which is new)?

    01082017 12pm cold start cycle with eventually stall.hpl
    Last edited by Garry W; 01-08-2017 at 02:27 PM.

  2. #2
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    I would change all the fuel filters including in tank and drain/flush the tank.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbt View Post
    I would change all the fuel filters including in tank and drain/flush the tank.

    Update: I disconnected the fuel pressure sensor and the problem went away. The PCM set's the fuel pump DC command to 17.5% and does not lower the fuel pump speed signal since it does not know what the fuel pressure is (sensor disconnected). As a result no more lean idle and no stalling, STFT's close to zero. Problem is identified. This Fuel pressure sensor is brand new as of 3 weeks ago. There must be something wrong with the signal (too high). I need to figure out why the new sensor is giving me a high reading, or if there is something else wrong with the fuel pressure/delivery. I replaced this sensor 3 weeks ago as there was (over the last 1-2 months) a few instances of fuel rail pressure signal low DTC. So something is still not right, either the new sensor is not accurate or something else is wrong with fuel pumping. Looking back through my emails this was a generic ebay part, I have a feeling it is junk and has cost me days of trouble and chasing my tail, in part due to my learning of this ford/mercury pcm. Thanks to HPtuners I found the correlation. I will replace it with a genuine ford part and post an update.!!! I may have learned a painfull lesson about generic ebay parts.
    Last edited by Garry W; 01-08-2017 at 06:56 PM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Garry W View Post
    Update: I disconnected the fuel pressure sensor and the problem went away. The PCM set's the fuel pump DC command to 17.5% and does not lower the fuel pump speed signal since it does not know what the fuel pressure is (sensor disconnected). As a result no more lean idle and no stalling, STFT's close to zero. Problem is identified. This Fuel pressure sensor is brand new as of 3 weeks ago. There must be something wrong with the signal (too high). I need to figure out why the new sensor is giving me a high reading, or if there is something else wrong with the fuel pressure/delivery. I replaced this sensor 3 weeks ago as there was (over the last 1-2 months) a few instances of fuel rail pressure signal low DTC. So something is still not right, either the new sensor is not accurate or something else is wrong with fuel pumping. Looking back through my emails this was a generic ebay part, I have a feeling it is junk and has cost me days of trouble and chasing my tail, in part due to my learning of this ford/mercury pcm. Thanks to HPtuners I found the correlation. I will replace it with a genuine ford part and post an update.!!! I may have learned a painfull lesson about generic ebay parts.
    Nice. Thanks for the update. Based on your previous description is sounded like a fuel cavitation issue. Sediment in the tank clogging the in-tank fuel filter post startup. I have had this happen on two Ford vehicles in the past with similar symptoms.

    Let us know how the new sensor works.

  5. #5
    Tuner in Training boostbuick's Avatar
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    Yea id chainge the fuel pressuse sensor and regulator if its externaly regulater on the fuel rail , also high short term trims can be a huge vacume leak check all hoses for cracks and splits. Some mecury 4.0l v6 engine have egr that goes into the intake on drivers side that there i silicone and keep the maf happy. A few other things to chack too is fuel pressure with a external gauge cause yah might have a shit pump

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by wbt View Post
    Nice. Thanks for the update. Based on your previous description is sounded like a fuel cavitation issue. Sediment in the tank clogging the in-tank fuel filter post startup. I have had this happen on two Ford vehicles in the past with similar symptoms.

    Let us know how the new sensor works.
    It was an inferior generic fuel sensor from Ebay. It did not show much movement in fuel pressure and was pretty much minimum reading of 41 psi which had the fuel pump control circuit slowing down its command to lower the pressure untill the engine eventually stalled. It is now fixed with a good quality mtorocraft fuel pressure sensor that is much more responsive and reads accurately. Engine is running great now. This is the part I bought originally, what a waste, ...
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/291876805784.

    The better part I bought is the following... Standard Motor Products FPS5 Fuel Injection Pressure Sensor from Amazon?.
    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    From the new sensor it reacts very quickly to fuel speed command and it looks like it targets around 39psi.
    Last edited by Garry W; 01-14-2017 at 11:40 AM.