Torque Model editing functionality now in beta!

[Higgs Boson]

Tim, is there any reason why one couldn't disable Flex Fuel to limit the tables being used? I don't even have a sensor on the truck so it is using virtual calculation, only reason I could guess is for E-10.

Thanks,
Kyle

set to disable and set your stoich table to 14.08 all across for E10. should be all you need to do for a Virtual sensor vehicle.

[Harlech]

set to disable and set your stoich table to 14.08 all across for E10. should be all you need to do for a Virtual sensor vehicle.

Sounds good to me. Thank you, sir!

[BigDaddyCool]

Can we just clarify a few things with this torque model ...... clarify meaning CLEARLY.

So in the Virtual Torque OK. You have Y Axies - Airmass (mg). Down that axies atleast in my tune it goes from 0 to 800 (100 intervals). What 'airmass' are you referring to. As in total airmass (MAF orVE) - eg.... maf or ve @ wot might run 300+g/sec on a NA vehicle. OR as I would think it would be............ convert that mg to g, so 800 being .80g/sec as in cyclinder airmass? .....

It honestly should be spelled out in the software.... It's like just saying 'spark, fuel' ....... so timing advance, restard?, pressure or level, injector flow lol? and so on......

It really shouldn't be a mystery. We are all here for the same thing.

[Chris@HPTuners]

Can we just clarify a few things with this torque model ...... clarify meaning CLEARLY.

So in the Virtual Torque OK. You have Y Axies - Airmass (mg). Down that axies atleast in my tune it goes from 0 to 800 (100 intervals). What 'airmass' are you referring to. As in total airmass (MAF orVE) - eg.... maf or ve @ wot might run 300+g/sec on a NA vehicle. OR as I would think it would be............ convert that mg to g, so 800 being .80g/sec as in cyclinder airmass? .....

It honestly should be spelled out in the software.... It's like just saying 'spark, fuel' ....... so timing advance, restard?, pressure or level, injector flow lol? and so on......

It really shouldn't be a mystery. We are all here for the same thing.

Airmass is g or mg (in the cylinder), Airflow is g/sec, the rate of air into the engine

[BigDaddyCool]

Airmass is g or mg (in the cylinder), Airflow is g/sec, the rate of air into the engine

Thanks Chris.

[GHuggins]

Airmass is g or mg (in the cylinder), Airflow is g/sec, the rate of air into the engine

So just to clear up some more on this Chris, could we in essence just go by cylinder airmass numbers for this axis's reference? That would actually clarify things a whole lot on how to log all of this.

[mowton]

So while we are on the subject of airmass axis in the model, I am tuning a 2016 Zo6 with GT35 cam, pullies etc.....an LPE 800 hp package. The air-mass we are experiencing is in the 1.5/1.6 g/cyl and torque that far exceeds the 640 ft lb Del Eng Torque limits (believe this is a HP Tuners reporting limit, not an OS limit...) as well as the new MAX Torque per Gear which is a new table just added that corrected my issues where I actually had to "scale" the torque model to fit within the 650 ft lb limits we didn't have access to until recently.... As a note, it is also available in the 14/15 model years and I thank HP Tuners engineering for adding them to the Beta version :-) Access to this table corrected the Torque Management Advance being pulled until the Eng Torque dropped below the 650 ft lb limits.

Another big issue with this setup was Manifold temps of 160F which resulted in massive knock on the dyno....we purged the system as it appeared there was an air lock (hoses leading into and out of lid were cool) and added a bit more coolant and the temps came down to a more usable 125/130. We are adding an auxillary tank to increase the capacity this weekend to further reduce the temps. Obviously, this is a great opportunity for Meth....:-)

My question is when I try and use the Virtual Torque Model, it loads up with 800 mg (.8 g/cyl). I change it to 1600 91.6 g/cyl) with 100 step and develop a new torque model based on our dyno results. When I look at the new model, the values are actually lower than stock and seem to be going the wrong way? I ended up tweaking the stock torque model by hand (increase values) until the eng torque pid resembled our torque curve. Also if I re-open the file, the Virtual Torque Model defaults to the 800 mg air-mass value again? why wouldn't it take on the new model we developed up to 1600 mg (1.6 g/cyl)? Am I doing something wrong?

Still learning :-)

Ed M

[Chris@HPTuners]

So just to clear up some more on this Chris, could we in essence just go by cylinder airmass numbers for this axis's reference? That would actually clarify things a whole lot on how to log all of this.

That's exactly what it is, it's just shown in mg instead of g. The Airmass Torque is a function of airmass, RPM, cam angle and spark using the airmass based coefficients. The MAP Torque is a function of MAP, RPM, cam angle and spark using the MAP based coeffs.

[Chris@HPTuners]

My question is when I try and use the Virtual Torque Model, it loads up with 800 mg (.8 g/cyl). I change it to 1600 91.6 g/cyl) with 100 step and develop a new torque model based on our dyno results. When I look at the new model, the values are actually lower than stock and seem to be going the wrong way? I ended up tweaking the stock torque model by hand (increase values) until the eng torque pid resembled our torque curve. Also if I re-open the file, the Virtual Torque Model defaults to the 800 mg air-mass value again? why wouldn't it take on the new model we developed up to 1600 mg (1.6 g/cyl)? Am I doing something wrong?
Ed M

The torque tables shown in the virtual torque are calculated from the airmass axis values. Regardless of the range you set the calculated value for say 500mg won't be different.

After you create the table you want you must click the "Extrapolate Coefficients" button to make the changes to the coefficient tables (this is the purpose of the whole thing), then save the tune. The virtual torque form defaults back to 0-800mg but if you change it to 0-1600 the values you saved to the coefficients will return. You also need to be aware the system is limited to a 2nd order polynomial, which means the surfaces formed cannot be crazy up/down/spikey the fit will be to 2nd order so some numbers you put in may not become reality when you extrapolate coefficients, they will appear smoothed. It's also very non-intuitive to interpret a 4D surface in multiple 3D snapshots, but it is what it is.

[mowton]

The torque tables shown in the virtual torque are calculated from the airmass axis values. Regardless of the range you set the calculated value for say 500mg won't be different.

After you create the table you want you must click the "Extrapolate Coefficients" button to make the changes to the coefficient tables (this is the purpose of the whole thing), then save the tune. The virtual torque form defaults back to 0-800mg but if you change it to 0-1600 the values you saved to the coefficients will return. You also need to be aware the system is limited to a 2nd order polynomial, which means the surfaces formed cannot be crazy up/down/spikey the fit will be to 2nd order so some numbers you put in may not become reality when you extrapolate coefficients, they will appear smoothed. It's also very non-intuitive to interpret a 4D surface in multiple 3D snapshots, but it is what it is.

Thank you Chris. Any thoughts on why the Airmass A-C Torque Model coefficient values in the tune are reduced after I increase the Virtual Torque Model values. I'll put together an example when I get to the office tomorrow. I had to increase the Airmass A-C values by hand to increase the Engine Torque PID reporting.

Just read about the User Defined Parameter and FPCM capabilities you guys have added....thank you from all of us...you guys rock :-)

Ed M

[IARLLC]

Hi Chris,
Any idea when this Torque Model Editing will make it out of beta and into the main update? The thing is that a week ago you guys hooked me up, adding a car to the coverage list and putting it into the daily update. If I switch over to the beta version I would guess that last week's update might not be included in the beta.... I would lose coverage on that client's car. Am I understanding that correctly? I don't want to stress this computer out by running both systems.
Thanks for all you guys do!

[Engineer@HPT]

Hi Chris,
Any idea when this Torque Model Editing will make it out of beta and into the main update? The thing is that a week ago you guys hooked me up, adding a car to the coverage list and putting it into the daily update. If I switch over to the beta version I would guess that last week's update might not be included in the beta.... I would lose coverage on that client's car. Am I understanding that correctly? I don't want to stress this computer out by running both systems.
Thanks for all you guys do!

We add new support and features to the beta first, so beta is all you need.

[IARLLC]

Much thanks HPT!

[frans96ss]

Are you guys going to fix how the negative numbers go technically the wrong way of what you would want?

[Chris@HPTuners]

Are you guys going to fix how the negative numbers go technically the wrong way of what you would want?

which negative numbers?

[Higgs Boson]

which negative numbers?

The negative torque numbers in the Virtual Torque Editor get more negative when you apply positive Multiply %

[frans96ss]

The negative torque numbers in the Virtual Torque Editor get more negative when you apply positive Multiply %

Yes this.... Its technically doing the back correctly bc its a negative number but doing the opposite of what we need it to do.

[Chris@HPTuners]

This is working as designed, its multiplying. Use the add if you want to shift everything up a certain amount

[Higgs Boson]

This is working as designed, its multiplying. Use the add if you want to shift everything up a certain amount

but a certain percentage, varies per cell...

[frans96ss]

This is working as designed, its multiplying. Use the add if you want to shift everything up a certain amount

Yes i understand its working by design.... but if we multiply the positive numbers they go the right way and the negative numbers go the opposite way of what we would want.... Yes we could do the negatives and positives separate but its a pain in the ass to do it that way.