ZL1 Frankenstein tune, please take a look!

[HartRod]

A buddy of mine just purchased a used 2015 Camaro ZL1 from a local CHEVROLET dealership with approximately 27K miles. The car has the following mods:

C.A.I. cold air intake
Kooks 1 7/8? long tube headers with Kooks high flow cats

• Borla ATAK cat back exhaust

Lingenfelter 2.55? (18% overdrive) upper pulley (L220030709)

After driving it a while he's a little worried that it wasn't tuned correctly for the mods that it has. He brought it over last night and took me for a ride and we did a data log. After riding in it, I think I agree with him as the car doesn't really perform they way I thought a 580HP car should. I pulled the tune and there seems to be some very questionable things done in the tune. A lot of DTCs have been disabled (Cats/O2/LTFTs and more). They even disabled the LTFTs by setting the ECT temp at 280. There's other questionable stuff with the transmission also. The dealership gave him an extended warranty (85K), but he's worried that what's been done to the tune can/will damage the car, and I tend to agree with him. He paid in the high $40s for the car and I would hate for him to get taken to the cleaners if something breaks. Please take a look at the tune and let me know what you think. Tune and log included. TIA

PS Can a dealership sell a car legally that has emission stuff turned off in the tune and deleted from the car????

[jsllc]

What fuel are you expecting to use?
No lower pulley mods, just the upper?

[HartRod]

What fuel are you expecting to use?
No lower pulley mods, just the upper?

E10, 93 octane. Just the upper, 18% overdriven.

[GHuggins]

Looks like the majority of the HP loss is in the timing table - for that setup you could easily be running another 4 degrees and then really tuned - possibly another 8 to 10... He should honestly be right around 600 to the tire with that setup unless he's running out of injector... PE settings look a touch off... LTFT's were disabled by the tuner to keep pe fueling where he wanted it - not unheard of - even done it myself at rare times... Didn't look through the tune in detail, but fueling isn't far off from the looks of the log - can't comment for wot fueling - no wideband that I noticed unless I overlooked it...

As long as it's got cats the dealer can sell it... High flow cats have still been known to set cat efficiency codes, so again not abnormal for the tuner to kill the dtc's associated with them - if this is all he did - I did not check in detail...

[ZL1#216]

Once you go higher than 10% on these cars, you typically need bigger injectors and a BAP (boost a pump).

[mowton]

You are definitely out of injector/fuel (IPW @ 6000 is 24+ms), shouldnt be any higher than 19ms and that is 100% duty cycle. You are commanding 11.0 which is about right for E10 so you can't improve injector/fuel by leaniing out any. Also you are not logging MAP or Wide Band error and with the current state of your injectors I would be careful of leaning out too bad.

Ed M

[jsllc]

So I own a 2012 ZL1. Went from 580 to 700 to 800 to 900 to 1000 and now 1100. If you are staying 900 and under with pump gas, ID850s or FIC 80 LB 850 CC for LS. There are many items in your tune that vary greatly from stock. You have not made the types of modifications that would require all of these changes. I would certainly change some things if it were mine.

[C10_ustacould]

This tune is in my car. Thanks for the input, it's much appreciated. I have secured a set of ID850s and the car will be retuned by Ted Jannetty. I guess he thought the existing tune was pretty far gone as he started with an unmodified ZL1 tune and made the necessary changes per my modifications. Hope to have it sorted by the weekend. Thanks again for the help!

[Higgs Boson]

What was described is no big deal, LTFT, "disabling some DTCs," etc.

Starting with a stock tune is just good practice and doesn't say anything about the existing tune.
There are so many parameters it's easier not to figure out every minuscule change and just do what you already know to do starting from scratch.

Good luck with your new tune and injectors, make sure the injector data is exactly correct as it is on the ID website.

[GHuggins]

^^^ This is what I tried to say - fueling isn't bad off at all - can't comment for wot as no wideband... HP loss is in the spark tables... Good luck with Ted?

[C10_ustacould]

^^^ This is what I tried to say - fueling isn't bad off at all - can't comment for wot as no wideband... HP loss is in the spark tables... Good luck with Ted?

What did you mean by "Good luck with Ted?"

[schpenxel]

There's a massive thread on ls1tech about him. Camaro5 is heavily censored so take anything you read over there with a grain of salt. You say something bad about a vendor there (even when true and said in a factual manner) and you will get banned with a quickness. One vendor was going flat out bankrupt--letters going out to customers from his lawyer and everything and people STILL got banned for bringing it up on there.

Not trying to go down that road, just make sure you've done plenty of research for whoever you have tune it.

[gofastwclass]

I'm not commenting on Ted, his skills or his work as I can't vouch for that. However I agree 100% with schpenxel on his view of Camaro5. Calling Camaro 5 "heavily censored" is a polite and professional understatement. I don't think I have ever seen a site with so many shills, banned or suspended accounts and threads supporting crap, non-existent and snake oil vendor products.

For sadistic comedy my favourite topics were the ones started by vendors hyping products that weren't even off the drawing board, let alone in beta testing as being "near market." For some reason the masses were awed by the carrot on the string and would blindly follow it for months. Of course periodically the vendor would toss everyone a bit of carrot to make sure they still knew what it tasted like and drag them on again. When someone mentioned they were simply following a carrot on a string, that user was warned, suspended and / or their post was deleted. I saw through the vendor sponsorship / favouritism bull very quickly and simply stopped frequenting their site.

[gmorris]

Yup, c5 is a joke, worst forum I have ever been a part of. Only reason I even go back is for the odd scrap of relevant info about ZL1 parts. There are a couple members that don't even try and be subtle about their Jennety shilling...every single question that comes up from cam selection to what brand of air freshener and the poster will immediately be directed to talk to Ted and "get taken care of". Cam threads are the best though....such a bunch of clueless kids repeating what they have read two pages back lol. Don't even get me started on the "headers lose power because you make less boost" threads.

[ABADZL1]

For the money you spent on the SCT handheld, you could have had your car dyno tuned locally in Florida vs. having it tuned by someone from 1000 miles away. Everything said above about Camaro5 is 100% true.

[schpenxel]

Yeah, it's bad. I didn't really want to bash them then they say a mod on HPT is bashing them or something stupid like that so I was trying to not go too all out about it... but yeah, it's bad. Traffic over there seems to have suffered so at least they're reaping what they sowed. You can do that for a while but eventually people figure it out. I've seen the same on other forums but never to that degree.

Anyways, we probably should go back to talking about tuning now

[C10_ustacould]

Well, I'm currently in the process of having my car tuned and so far it has been a huge improvement in driveability. With that said, you all saw the original tune so you know there was a lot of room for improvement. I just sent back my 4th datalog and the tuner has requested I get a wide-band set up. I'm going to buy one because I'm sure I will get use out of it over time, but after this I'm done buying parts. I read the thread on LS1tech yesterday and it clued my in on what goes on with Camaro5, I was deflated because I was hoping it would be a solid source of info on our ZL1. Seems to me that most of the guys on LS1tech want to wring every last Hp out of their cars for racing, and I can appreciate that, but I just want a solid street car. I updated my registration with LS1tech so I can glean info from the 5th Gen area, also wanted to change my username so it was the same on all three. Thanks for being candid, it's well received and will certainly be a part of my decision making from here on out.

[C10_ustacould]

For the money you spent on the SCT handheld, you could have had your car dyno tuned locally in Florida vs. having it tuned by someone from 1000 miles away. Everything said above about Camaro5 is 100% true.

There are no proven dyno tuners local to me that I know of, I'm in NW Florida (Panhandle). I had considered a tuner from Tampa but was swayed by the 6 hour drive.

[gofastwclass]

Yeah, it's bad. I didn't really want to bash them then they say a mod on HPT is bashing them or something stupid like that so I was trying to not go too all out about it...

schpenxel, YOU didn't, I did. You were very honest, professional and informational in your post as you always are. I also stand by my previous words.

Anyways, we probably should go back to talking about tuning now

Agreed.

Well, I'm currently in the process of having my car tuned and so far it has been a huge improvement in driveability.

Awesome! That is the type of result we like to hear.

Seems to me that most of the guys on LS1tech want to wring every last Hp out of their cars for racing, and I can appreciate that, but I just want a solid street car.

I agree. I like to have fun, build cars, etc. but I don't care about dyno numbers or want to replace broken stuff all the time. Everyone has a different idea of "streetable." My definition means I can drive it to work or take a lady on a long weekend road trip and we can both enjoy the ride.

[ABADZL1]

There are no proven dyno tuners local to me that I know of, I'm in NW Florida (Panhandle). I had considered a tuner from Tampa but was swayed by the 6 hour drive.

Phil would have been worth the drive for an A6. I love his transmission tunes.