Why is timing being pulled?

[ryanleiker]

I'm getting my tune to really good spot... much better then its ever been.
I just got done doing some wideband VE tuning and the car drives a lot better, but my off idle timing seems to be holding me back...

Every time I push the gas, timing gets pulled for just an instant and then starts to climb.
I'd like it to not do this... Is there something in my tune that I have still turned on that is doing this?


Here's a log of what I'm facing... Time frame between 5:15 - 8:00 minutes. You can see where I'm pushing the gas and the little dip in timing before the climb, each time.
I'll put my tune up also if you can take a look please.

Is this directly related to my timing curve, and I just need to bump it up a few degrees in the right g/cyl cells?

Thanks for any help.

[Oleblu]

VE table looks a little choppy in the off idle and low load low rpm ranges. I haven't scoped out to many FI setups so i could be all wrong. i would pull timing before i added it considering how much kr you are getting off idle and in the mid range low/medium load areas. also just noticed burst knock is enabled to pull 6-8* from 800-1600 rpm it could very well be burst knock i always raise the (enable delta cyl air) table to its max or just under then adjust the (vs. rpm) table to 0's across the board to eliminate burst knock all together.

[ryanleiker]

Hmm... For some reason I didn't seem to notice that much knock. Maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Is it better to pull timing to eliminate knock altogether, or eliminate knock retard at this point?

Is there a way to bulid a histogram that will build a solid efficient timing curve? I feel like I'm sort of shooting in the dark here with my timing.
Btw, I'm running a turbo, and e85. If that helps.

[ryanleiker]

VE table looks a little choppy in the off idle and low load low rpm ranges. I haven't scoped out to many FI setups so i could be all wrong. i would pull timing before i added it considering how much kr you are getting off idle and in the mid range low/medium load areas. also just noticed burst knock is enabled to pull 6-8* from 800-1600 rpm it could very well be burst knock i always raise the (enable delta cyl air) table to its max or just under then adjust the (vs. rpm) table to 0's across the board to eliminate burst knock all together.

Thanks. I'll try that.

[Jay@HAP]

turn your STFT back on. Also the Bank 2 02 sensor is going all the way lean and staying there after a certain point. I am going to guess that your WB is in bank 1.

[ryanleiker]

turn your STFT back on. Also the Bank 2 02 sensor is going all the way lean and staying there after a certain point. I am going to guess that your WB is in bank 1.

I thought you wanted all fuel trims off while tuning the VE table?
My WB is in my downpipe, but I do have a major exhaust leak at my v-band inches from my O2 sensor in that bank, so I'm assuming that is the cause for that erratic reading.

[Jay@HAP]

it depends if you are using tuning SDOL or SDCL. Personally I turn off LTFT and use STFT to do VE till 4000rpm for part throttle and cruise. For WOT I use the WB. There are several different ways to go about this is just the way I do it. The reason I use STFT for everything under 4k is the PCM is trying to achieve stoich so I watch what the PCM is doing to get to stoich and make corrections accordingly.

[ryanleiker]

Here's a new drive log and an adjusted tune. I took all the burst knock out and changed the delta cylinder air to 1.00 g/cyl, I figured this would be enough.
It seems to be a little more responsive but the timing seems to follow the TPS almost exactly, until I'm in boost... I'm thinking maybe its just my timing curve, I've yet to do any major adjustments to it to see though.
I feel like I'm missing a button somewhere in the tune.
I feel like I have to wait on the timing to rebuild every time I push on the gas.

RL - 3bar SD - V2 - 7-3-2016 (modified)(wideband tuning).hptDrive Log 7-15-2016.hpl

[Nick@Newtech]

take a look at your idle timing tables, looks like you are hitting .8 to 1.0 G/cyl when you blip the throttle. SD tunes can sometimes have a very skewed g/cyl reference, usually from the injector data not being correct. Either way watch G/cyl and look at your timing tables (main, idle) as that's where its referencing timing value, adjust accordingly.


Also PE delay is 60 seconds, set to zero, enrichment rate 1-2 is usually good.

[ryanleiker]

take a look at your idle timing tables, looks like you are hitting .8 to 1.0 G/cyl when you blip the throttle. SD tunes can sometimes have a very skewed g/cyl reference, usually from the injector data not being correct. Either way watch G/cyl and look at your timing tables (main, idle) as that's where its referencing timing value, adjust accordingly.


Also PE delay is 60 seconds, set to zero, enrichment rate 1-2 is usually good.

What does PE delay mean? Is that 60 seconds of PE use? Or 60 seconds from startup? Or what?

[Nick@Newtech]

What does PE delay mean? Is that 60 seconds of PE use? Or 60 seconds from startup? Or what?

it may or may not be dependent on the pe rpm delay, I typically like to zero both out and use map enable and tps enable as my PE enablers. to answer your question it is the amount of time to enable PE, pretty sure its below the RPM delay threshold though so with yours at 1200 its a non issue most likely now that i have taken a second glance at your tune.

[ryanleiker]

Looks like it was a combination of burst knock and a conservative timing curve.
I've been playing with the timing table with RTT a lot lately and this car is really waking up in the lower RPM's.

Thanks for the help.