OMG what did I do... cammed my daily '10 'maro and dont know where to start tuning!!!

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

[QUOTE=mbray01;440484]you tune the ve and maf first, once you have hit the target(stoich) in all cells of ve, maf. Then you go back to pe. For pe to function correctly the base fueling must be correct.

Ok, so if I am tuning maf only then i would just tune the maf calibration table first? And that only tunes closed loop functions (under 30% throttle warmed up)? And then tune for PE? And as I'm tuning maf calibration what am I looking for on the wideband? Wideband is already bouncing up and down around stoich so I'm not sure what to look for?

[JBZ]

Set up that graph like i suggested in post 34. Use eq error (% error) which is the difference of commanded vs actual. You will see the error constantly go positive than negitive...that should cancel itself out. The pcm will always switch fueling around stoich so it will always bounce when in closed loop. If at the end of the run you are lean you will see the average values as positive numbers and if your rich you will see the values as negitive numbers.

Go drive and when your done copy that graph and paste multiply by % in your tune files maf table. Go log again and again until your error is +/- 5%.

Remember to take the advice of others and set your pe to an acceptable range before you go log so you are already commanding what you want your wot afr to be.

Also you should probably set your dynamic airflow to a really low number like 400/300 rpm so that way it dosent try to reference your vve table.


I took some screenshot that will hopefully help you out

your custom graph should look something like this but instead of LTFT + STFT [math] you should use eq error.






then go log and highlight the entire cell (you want it to show up blue like below) and copy it






than go and paste special and multiply by percent in your tune file (you want it to show up blue like below) and be sure to put values similar to these in your dynamic airflow

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

your custom graph should look something like this but instead of LTFT + STFT [math] you should use eq error.

AHHH Thats where I messed up, I misunderstood and copied the link to the T and did LTFT+STFT instead of the MAF freq error. Thanks for the patience and thanks so much for explaining in layman's terms, As you can tell I'm still very new to this

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

Quick question, sure its something dumb but when I logged no data came up in the maf error table. If you guys need my log file to figure it out I can put it up later, on my cell right now

[JBZ]

Quick question, sure its something dumb but when I logged no data came up in the maf error table. If you guys need my log file to figure it out I can put it up later, on my cell right now

yeah post it up, also post up your channel config and your histogram config so we can see what your looking at.

[schpenxel]

Post layout and log

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

2010 stock camaro.hpt

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

16-07-07 11-39-07.hpl

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

Ok guys here is the tune and log, if you need anything else to see why the maf error table isnt reading please let me know!

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

Post layout and log

Want to make sure I am posting the right stuff, what do you mean by layout?

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

Oh and when I switched to 3.2 its not logging injector duty or KR anymore...

[schpenxel]

Then add knock retard to the channel list...

For injector duty you just need to log RPM and injector PW. I'll check out logs in a bit

Layout file is Layout-->save layout as. It's basically all the charts/graph/gauges that you've setup. Makes it easier for me to see what you're seeing

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

log layout.Layout.xml

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

Then add knock retard to the channel list...

For injector duty you just need to log RPM and injector PW. I'll check out logs in a bit

Layout file is Layout-->save layout as. It's basically all the charts/graph/gauges that you've setup. Makes it easier for me to see what you're seeing

I think I just posted what you need. And sorry I just really suck at computers. Thought I was ready for all this because I used Craigslist and Ebay alot lol man was that a mistake

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

Hello, been trying not to bother you guys but does anyone know why my maf eq error table isnt showing data? Been trying to figure it out myself but just cant. I have posted log and tune and layout. Thank you.

[schpenxel]

A. you're using the wrong parameter in the MAF ERR graph.
B. the right parameter won't work without data from a wideband (EQ Ratio Error is the one you want--set your wideband up as LAMBDA, not AFR)
C. I don't see a widebnad in the last log you posted at all.. so there's no data for the EQ ratio error math parameter to use
D. you aren't logging mass air flow FREQUENCY, which is required for MAF tuning

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

A. you're using the wrong parameter in the MAF ERR graph.
B. the right parameter won't work without data from a wideband (EQ Ratio Error is the one you want--set your wideband up as LAMBDA, not AFR)
C. I don't see a widebnad in the last log you posted at all.. so there's no data for the EQ ratio error math parameter to use
D. you aren't logging mass air flow FREQUENCY, which is required for MAF tuning

I do have a wideband, I just cant hook it up to my interface because I dont have the PRO version and didnt know I needed it to use that table. I was just following directions not knowing how or why. The table says mass air flow frequency so I am clueless as to what I'm doing wrong. I promise I have done nothing but follow directions and maybe the problem is people are telling me what to do (which is great and appreciated) but not how it works or why I'm doing it? I have tuned many carbed distributor vehicles and I build engines and transmissions and have built many cars for myself and friends over the years, I totally understand the concept of tuning, I am just having an issue understanding what the heck to look at or to change, to change fueling? and if you look back a bit in the forum Ive had some tell me to change PE table first and others tell me to change maf table first and I thought I was starting to understand but now I am lost again. Am I going to have to get PRO version to tune this thing now? Sorry, not frustrated with you guys and can understand why you are with me but I feel I am competent enough to tune a vehicle and am just totally lost again when I was just starting to think I was getting it.

[schpenxel]

Yeah, so basically for part throttle operation the car uses the stock O2 sensors to get fueling to be right around stoich, 14.7:1. The stock O2 sensors are totally useless beyond that though--they can't tell you whether you're at 12:1 or 13: or 10:1. All they can say is you're richer than 14.7:1 or leaner than 14.7:1

So, for part throttle/closed loop you can use fuel trim values that the computer figures out based on O2 sensor readings to make corrections to MAF or VE tables, depending on which you are using. If fuel trims are at say +10% then it's adding 10% more fuel to get to 14.7:1. So, in that case you would add 10% to that spot in the MAF table so that it doesn't have to make that correction anymore. By "spot" I mean whatever frequency it's outputting at that point.

For WOT tuning a wideband is pretty much the only way.

Changing the PE EQ ratio table will change what the car is "commanding" as far as AFR goes @ WOT. That does not mean that is what it's actually getting.. only what it's trying to get. Remember, at WOT the computer has no O2 sensors that it can use, so it's literally just calculating how much fuel to inject based on how much air it thinks is coming in. If the amount of air actually coming in is different, then you end up leaner or richer than the car is commanding.

So, that's where a wideband comes in. If the car is commanding 12:1 and you're getting 12.5:1, then you're roughly 4% lean. That would mean you want to increase that spot in the MAF table by 4%.

As far as wideband options--for newer vehicles AEM has a new wideband out that connects to the OBD port and feeds data to HPTuners though that, meaning you can get wideband info WITHOUT having to have the pro interface. It's pretty neat, and setup is really easy.

That's the 10,000 ft overview.

[bloodcamarosexmagic]

Yeah, so basically for part throttle operation the car uses the stock O2 sensors to get fueling to be right around stoich, 14.7:1. The stock O2 sensors are totally useless beyond that though--they can't tell you whether you're at 12:1 or 13: or 10:1. All they can say is you're richer than 14.7:1 or leaner than 14.7:1

So, for part throttle/closed loop you can use fuel trim values that the computer figures out based on O2 sensor readings to make corrections to MAF or VE tables, depending on which you are using. If fuel trims are at say +10% then it's adding 10% more fuel to get to 14.7:1. So, in that case you would add 10% to that spot in the MAF table so that it doesn't have to make that correction anymore. By "spot" I mean whatever frequency it's outputting at that point.

For WOT tuning a wideband is pretty much the only way.

Changing the PE EQ ratio table will change what the car is "commanding" as far as AFR goes @ WOT. That does not mean that is what it's actually getting.. only what it's trying to get. Remember, at WOT the computer has no O2 sensors that it can use, so it's literally just calculating how much fuel to inject based on how much air it thinks is coming in. If the amount of air actually coming in is different, then you end up leaner or richer than the car is commanding.

So, that's where a wideband comes in. If the car is commanding 12:1 and you're getting 12.5:1, then you're roughly 4% lean. That would mean you want to increase that spot in the MAF table by 4%.

As far as wideband options--for newer vehicles AEM has a new wideband out that connects to the OBD port and feeds data to HPTuners though that, meaning you can get wideband info WITHOUT having to have the pro interface. It's pretty neat, and setup is really easy.

That's the 10,000 ft overview.

Thank you soooooo much, this is exactly the type of info I need. Now I understand better what the computer is looking for and how to modify and why. Very good stuff. So PLEASE correct me if I am wrong, but I think based on this info, I will start by fixing the part throttle/closed loop fueling (maf only for now) by logging part throttle (under 30 percent pedal) through the whole RPM range and adjusting accordingly?? If so then could you tell me which perameter vs. which perameter to log to do so (being as I dont need wideband data for closed loop.)?? I will take this one step at a time now so I dont get ahead of myself and address other questions later.

[schpenxel]

Yep. For closed loop MAF tuning use fuel trims..

Here is a step by step thread I did that should help. Let me know if you have any questions. You HAVE to be logging mass airflow FREQUENCY and mass airflow MASS FLOW RATE in order to do MAF corrections. Most people miss the frequency one in the beginning.

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...er-V3&p=419231