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Thread: OMG what did I do... cammed my daily '10 'maro and dont know where to start tuning!!!

  1. #1

    OMG what did I do... cammed my daily '10 'maro and dont know where to start tuning!!!

    Hello guys, brand new to the forum and regretting decisions I made... Well I have an ls3 Camaro E38, has cai, LT headers, basically straight pipes and I just installed a texas speed blower cam kit 228/239 114+3 (cant afford blower yet). Now I am very familiar with tuning carbed and distributor old school stuff but have never tuned efi and thought I had enough knowledge to self teach but apparently not. Well I'm embarrassed now because I need my daily and cant drive it. Now I understand safe air/fuel parameters and timing, and I do know the vcm scanner is to be read (along with wideband) to determine what changes to make to the vcm editor. I have gone through them enough to at least navigate them. Car does start and idle with the stock tune and I have changed absolutely nothing because I'm not sure which of the many tables to start in. And have also read about speed density only or maf only and enabled and disabled o2's with no idea what would be the right system for me. Really I'm looking for the easiest one to set up to get my car at least drivable and putt around until I can do some more reading and learning and research. Any help would be forever appreciated! I did not post data because I have touched nothing yet. Thank you!!!!

  2. #2
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    You can post the current (even if it's stock) tune and a log. Do that and people will try to help... without that it's a bit of a guessing game

    My guess is increasing min airflow, increasing idle RPM's and decreasing a few other tables will probably at least make it driveable. But I need to see the tune and a log to get started.
    Post a log and tune if you want help

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodcamarosexmagic View Post
    And have also read about speed density only or maf only, with no idea what would be the right system for me. Really I'm looking for the easiest one to set up to get my car at least drivable and putt around until I can do some more reading and learning and research.
    MAF is waayyy easier to tune, although you may not get the steady state driving how you like with MAF only instead it would be better to have the dynamic set up (that is for you to decide) that the factory uses or SD only but you will need to tune these independently. a lot of folks say start with VVE (virtual volumetric efficiency...SD) then MAF.

    I am fairly new as well so take anything the schpenxel has to say as gospel comparatively to what I might say but these PCMs are airflow based meaning, fueling and spark are based off of airflow. you need to get airflow figured out first. then move to the others unless you have different injectors then the PCM was set up for and that becomes your first priority.

    Quote Originally Posted by bloodcamarosexmagic View Post
    enabled and disabled o2's
    sorry but had to split up your post because I would like to touch on this as well, enabled or disabled o2's I assume your meaning closed loop vs open loop. getting your fuel trims inline using factory O2s will need to be done in closed loop. if you are it in open loop the fuel trims no long learn because your PCM no longer oscillates mixtures to keep the engine at stoich. if you have a wideband logged you can tune either way, open loop or closed loop...that's up to you. again I think there is arguments for either.
    Last edited by JBZ; 06-29-2016 at 02:06 PM.
    2010 CTS-V A6, Airaid CAI, 2.4 pulley, ported ls7 throttle body, ID850s, ARH 1-7/8" headers and X pipe, TR7IX plugs, MSD wires, Elite catch can, ZL1 lid and Track Attack HX

  4. #4
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    Go to Dan Maslic's web site (http://www.masterenginetuner.com). He has his book on line. It will be a great read for you to get an idea of where to start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_D View Post
    Go to Dan Maslic's web site (http://www.masterenginetuner.com). He has his book on line. It will be a great read for you to get an idea of where to start.
    ^^^this

    Its a 10,000' view but a good read and goes through the generals. I own the book and the only benefit is there are 3 more case studies that are in the hard copy...otherwise identical
    2010 CTS-V A6, Airaid CAI, 2.4 pulley, ported ls7 throttle body, ID850s, ARH 1-7/8" headers and X pipe, TR7IX plugs, MSD wires, Elite catch can, ZL1 lid and Track Attack HX

  6. #6
    Advanced Tuner jsllc's Avatar
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    schpenxel is great resource. There are others that will help as well. The more information you give them the better the help will be. You list these but do not give detail and then they need a copy of the tune that is in the car.

    ls3 Camaro E38
    CAI - Whose cold air intake and is MAF still in place? Stock MAF or vendor supplied?
    LT headers, basically straight pipes - Do you have O2 sensors? Both upstream and downstream with cats? Did you get rid of Cats?
    Cam kit 228/239 114+3
    Wideband? Which one?
    Any other changes? Even small ones.

    Just some help to help you help them. This all helps to give you the best help possible to make your care run better. Everyone here started where you are now.

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner mbray01's Avatar
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    Second going maf only as a starting point, it will get you up and running fastest, till you get comfortable tuning the vve table

    Multiply the entire maf calibration by 1.1

    add .7 to entire base running idle airflow table, and .7 to entire startup idle airflow table.

    under airflow/dynamic high rpm disable set to 200
    re enable set to 100

    this are numbers that should get you running descent, and get you on your way tuning, they are in no way exact, but will allow you to run long enough to get it dialed in
    Michael Bray
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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
    You can post the current (even if it's stock) tune and a log. Do that and people will try to help... without that it's a bit of a guessing game

    My guess is increasing min airflow, increasing idle RPM's and decreasing a few other tables will probably at least make it driveable. But I need to see the tune and a log to get started.
    Yessir, will post tune and log later when I get a chance. Thanks for the tip!

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by JBZ View Post


    sorry but had to split up your post because I would like to touch on this as well, enabled or disabled o2's I assume your meaning closed loop vs open loop. getting your fuel trims inline using factory O2s will need to be done in closed loop. if you are it in open loop the fuel trims no long learn because your PCM no longer oscillates mixtures to keep the engine at stoich. if you have a wideband logged you can tune either way, open loop or closed loop...that's up to you. again I think there is arguments for either.
    Yep sorry thats what I meant, thanks so much for the tips!

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_D View Post
    Go to Dan Maslic's web site (http://www.masterenginetuner.com). He has his book on line. It will be a great read for you to get an idea of where to start.
    Have definitely seen that referenced before and will probably get it to learn more about tuning so I can do it properly and help friends out etc. Thanks!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by jsllc View Post
    schpenxel is great resource. There are others that will help as well. The more information you give them the better the help will be. You list these but do not give detail and then they need a copy of the tune that is in the car.

    ls3 Camaro E38
    CAI - Whose cold air intake and is MAF still in place? Stock MAF or vendor supplied?
    LT headers, basically straight pipes - Do you have O2 sensors? Both upstream and downstream with cats? Did you get rid of Cats?
    Cam kit 228/239 114+3
    Wideband? Which one?
    Any other changes? Even small ones.

    Just some help to help you help them. This all helps to give you the best help possible to make your care run better. Everyone here started where you are now.
    Its a k&n cold air with stock maf, have upstream o2's, no downstream cuz no cats, LC2 innovate wideband. Thanks for the tip! And its refreshing to hear that everyone was in my shoes at one point, gives me a little more confidence!

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mbray01 View Post
    Second going maf only as a starting point, it will get you up and running fastest, till you get comfortable tuning the vve table

    Multiply the entire maf calibration by 1.1

    add .7 to entire base running idle airflow table, and .7 to entire startup idle airflow table.

    under airflow/dynamic high rpm disable set to 200
    re enable set to 100

    this are numbers that should get you running descent, and get you on your way tuning, they are in no way exact, but will allow you to run long enough to get it dialed in
    Great advice and will also give this a try! Thank you!

  13. #13
    Man I just have to say thanks again for all help and advice now and in the future to all! Very great forum! As Ive been doing research online it seems like alot of other forums just bash the new guy that has questions and its refreshing to talk to some nice knowledgable people!

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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodcamarosexmagic View Post
    Have definitely seen that referenced before and will probably get it to learn more about tuning so I can do it properly and help friends out etc. Thanks!
    You can't buy the book anymore. He has the entire book posted on his site. Anyone can read the book on line, no charge. He also has a few articles that details tuning projects that are very helpful.

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    I posted an idle guide a few weeks back, but to quickly get up and running decently...

    1) If stick set idle to 850, if auto set idle to 725
    2) add 3-4 g to min airflow
    3) Set proportional airflow enable RPM to 4000 (max it out)
    4) Set integral airflow enable rpm to 25
    5) Multiply integral airflow table by .8
    6) Halve over/under correction
    7) Set idle spark to 18-22 degrees

    That will pretty much get any car to idle enough to drive around fine. Getting the last 10-20% of driveability is what takes the most work.

  16. #16
    Ok guys, didn't have a chance to log it last night but will today. In the mean time, I got some questions! So I followed mbray01's great directions and the car is running good enough to pull out of the garage (still very lean). Now I am just curious as to exactly what I did and want to make sure I got the right idea so far. Not very sure what I did by multiplying maf calibration but am kind of sure that the 2 idle airflow tables I added to are like the "idle screw" for the throttle body? And the dynamic enable/disable settings disabled the map so I am just running maf now? And BigMike42 answered what the idle timing should be which I was curious about, question is can I set timing by vacuum gauge or is there a more efficient/better way to time these? And do I add/subtract timing by rpm sections at a time or overall linearly/exponentially etc.? And BigMike42, are the directions you gave for idling for a maf only setup?

  17. #17
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    Couple of answers, Mike probably can answer them better than me though:

    Yes min air is kind of like an idle set screw and helps limit how far the throttle blade can close

    max out proportional enable just makes it less sensitive to idle RPM fluctuations; otherwise it can jump around too bad.. i.e. opens throttle too far to stop it from dying, overdoes it.. closes it to bring RPM's down, almost dies.. rinse/repeat. This helps stop that

    Integral, similar--makes it less sensitive to idle fluctuations that come with a cam

    Over/under correction stops it from overdoing ignition timing corrections due to idle fluctuations. gen 4's use ignition timing to help control idle speed as well since it can change ignition timing faster than airflow
    Post a log and tune if you want help

    VCM Suite V3+ GETTING STARTED THREADS / HOW TO's

    Tuner by night
    CPX Tuning
    2005 Corvette, M6
    ECS 1500 Supercharger
    AlkyControl Meth, Monster LT1-S Twin, NT05R's
    ID1000's, 220/240, .598/.598, 118 from Cam Motion

    2007 Escalade, A6
    Stock

  18. #18
    Ok cool, thanks schpenxel. So what did I do by changing maf calibration?

  19. #19
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    Not sure why he used 1.1 to multiply the MAF table by but the dynamic airflow #'s were to make it only use the MAF for airflow calcs. As long as your fueling is with 20% or so fuel trims can get you back to 14.7:1, which is OK to drive around on.
    Post a log and tune if you want help

    VCM Suite V3+ GETTING STARTED THREADS / HOW TO's

    Tuner by night
    CPX Tuning
    2005 Corvette, M6
    ECS 1500 Supercharger
    AlkyControl Meth, Monster LT1-S Twin, NT05R's
    ID1000's, 220/240, .598/.598, 118 from Cam Motion

    2007 Escalade, A6
    Stock

  20. #20
    Gotcha. So which table(s) do I use to start adding fuel?