VVE tuning using HPT's built in or bluecat tool?

[JBZ]

hey folks,
I have officially started my virtual VE tuning and would love to get your feedback on the benefits of the bluecat tool over HPT's built in VVE table. or are there any? I am starting off with a completely stock 2010 CTS-V VVE table (was tuned in MAF only) with the mods that are in my signature.

I noticed when I imported the equations into the blue cat tool it would generate exactly the same table, but when I would generate the equations (without making any modifications to the table) it would change the zone map boundaries and all the coefficients. i am a little confused on the better approach or which one nets better results...im almost a little weary of the BCTs equations but others seem to swear by it.

whats the general consensus on the two are, BCT or HPT's built ins better, easier, more reliable? anything that can shed some light on the two would be greatly appreciated.

[schpenxel]

The main advantage (IMO) of bluecat's tool is it automatically adjusts the zone/map boundaries to best fit your new VVE table.. which causes much less "tweaking" of the data than HPT's editor does when it calculates coefficients.

The advantage of HPT's is it's faster/easier to use IMO

SO... up to you. There's probably room for both.

[JBZ]

The main advantage (IMO) of bluecat's tool is it automatically adjusts the zone/map boundaries to best fit your new VVE table.. which causes much less "tweaking" of the data than HPT's editor does when it calculates coefficients.

The advantage of HPT's is it's faster/easier to use IMO

SO... up to you. There's probably room for both.

so then modifying the zone boundaries (which is in the screenshot that it took) is a good thing? it appears that the zone boundaries were quite a bit different and blue cat wants to change even the stock configurations zone boundaries.

sorry if my questions come of naive or uninformed...but that is exactly how i feel. i am trying to get a better understanding of what exactly is going on or what affect changing the boundaries will have on the performance of the vehicle.

[schpenxel]

Yeah, it's not a bad thing.. though you could probably change them in a way that might not be as good if went crazy with them.

Bluecat's tool is basically moving the boundaries for each "zone" around so that it can make the equations/coefficients best match the "VVE" table you're asking for. It ends up giving you a VVE table that better matches what you asked for.

HPT's just fits the coefficients as best it can to the boundaries that you are already using, which sometimes works fine and sometimes is off a bit in some places. You'll see things change slightly when you hit calculate coefficients in HPT. I'm sure BC isn't perfect, but it seems to be closer most of the time.

That's a pretty vague answer but IMO I'd try messing with both and see what you like better. I suspect BC will get the boundaries closer to where you need them then after that it'll be easier to use the HPT built in one..

[JBZ]

Yeah, it's not a bad thing.. though you could probably change them in a way that might not be as good if went crazy with them.

Bluecat's tool is basically moving the boundaries for each "zone" around so that it can make the equations/coefficients best match the "VVE" table you're asking for. It ends up giving you a VVE table that better matches what you asked for.

HPT's just fits it as best it can to the boundaries that you are already using, which sometimes works fine and sometimes is off a bit in some places

That's a pretty vague answer but IMO I'd try messing with both and see what you like better. I suspect BC will get the boundaries closer to where you need them then after that it'll be easier to use the HPT built in one

OK...cool thanks, ill give it a shot tonight after i log and see what happens.

[JBZ]

so I made my first pass with the blue cat tool last night. and all went well. I am seeing results. I guessed on some of it and went a little overboard. but with that said when I try and do another modification (multiply my logged fuel trim errors by %) with the HPT this time rather then BC tool I get this warning. is this something I should be concerned about? this discussion is going on right now on the V forums...pretty much the same subject so I would like to make sure this doesn't pose any problems. I assume im getting this error because I had BC tool do the calculations and HPT is not happy with it?

any suggestions?

[schpenxel]

Hmmmm not sure on that one

[JBZ]

just to clarify, if I generate the coefficients through BC tool its fine, but if I apply changes to the already modified table in HPT get these warnings.

[GHuggins]

You've already made corrections to the Map zones via your first time using bluecat - I would just use the built in HPT device from that point on... One of the engineers can better explain this, but basically your "unseen" areas - "the infinity?" areas if you will aren't getting adjusted or joined correctly - basically points in-between points if that makes any more sense - where the zones come together or "mesh"? Also make sure your smoothing out the table each time you make corrections - keep it smooth - then let the coefficients do what they're going to do.... I hope I didn't describe that wrong - Keith or someone can describe what's going on much better than I... May not cause any problems, but who really knows?

[Higgs Boson]

It means you have one or more zones that are too skinny. A zone cannot consist of one row or one column, it has to be at least two of each per zone block.

You have to edit the zones or the axis to fix it.

[JBZ]

Cool thanks folks, ill be working on it here in just a bit. Ill take a look at the boundaries and see if any of them look to small

[JBZ]

Ha! Used the bc tool because i cannot figure out how to change zones...it recalculated the zones and something funky happened becasue the car wouldnt idle...it just died. Probably my fault because i took to much out of the low end of the map to compensate for areas that i didnt capture any data.

So can you guys give me some pointers on editing the zones or axis? When i tried to change it in the vve editor it would not take.

[Higgs Boson]

look in the speed density tab

[schpenxel]

It's in the airflow-->dynamic tab I believe. Zone RPM boundaries and zone MAP boundaries.

[JBZ]

how does those equate to the zones? im a little confused on how they would change the zones. so I had used the BC tool once more to re calculate equations and only one zone was off (zone 13) I would assume that the zone map boundaries was causing that but what zone is zone 13? would both the RPM and MAP zones need to be modified?

[GHuggins]

You can mess with both to more evenly break the table up - change them and go back to your 3d VE view - you should notice it changing slightly too... Someone on here last week posted what he likes to use - don't remember what it was under?

[GHuggins]

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...or-boosted-vve

[JBZ]

cool thanks, ill take a look and see if any of that makes sense

[Michael_D]

There is also the option of converting to the HPT custom op system. You get a real VE table. Not sure if there is a disadvantage or not, but it sure makes calibrating SD easier.

[JBZ]

There is also the option of converting to the HPT custom op system. You get a real VE table. Not sure if there is a disadvantage or not, but it sure makes calibrating SD easier.

I had actually started a thread in the VCM editor portion about that very thing and created one but have been hesitant to download it in. someone posted in another forum that passing emissions with the custom OS is a problem. whether that is true or not is unknown, I could always put a standard tune back in and emissions test with that. I have been thinking about that and the ability to lower my fan control is another benefit. at this point im unaware of anyone with a V or a ZL1 that has used the custom OS