Maf/Fuel Trim tuning help

[TuneRS]

Hello Hptuners community, let me start out by saying I am fairly new to tuning and been searching the forums for months learning as I go, I have managed a few tunes for my '13 roush stage 3. All of which I have surge and fuel trim issues. I have come to the conclusion based on my scanner that my issue is definitely MAF and fuel trim related. So i searched and searched and I have found guides on how to rescale MAF and fuel trims, however I am not understanding it. I have my scanner set up to average between LTFT and STFT. viewing the data im clueless how to apply it. HELP!

2013 mustang ghost cam v3.hpt
roush stage 3 Fuel trim..hpl
Fuel trim tables.png

[Jn2]

Your histogram is set wrong. Let m get a screen grab of mine to help you.


Edit:
This is what your histogram should be set too. Below I copied the number to fill in for the row axis

Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 8.35.21 PM.png

MAF period:
Removed

Once you have a log you click the box where my cursor is to make everything blue, from here right click on any of the blue squares and select copy.
Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 8.36.54 PM.png

Once you copy it, go to your MAF period table in your tune, click the square on the top right again to make everything blue, from here right click any blue square and pick paste special- "multiply by % half"

Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 8.41.16 PM.png

after that save the file and datalog once more, you wash rinse and repeat until you end up +/- 3%

[Jn2]

Second comment:

You may want to check out the follwin thread for help setting up your layout for a Coyote: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...-14-Mustang-GT

I noticed you are missing a lot of useful PIDs when logging. Mine is an example and has changed a bit, but most of the important stuff is in the channel configs

[TuneRS]

Your histogram is set wrong. Let m get a screen grab of mine to help you.


Edit:
This is what your histogram should be set too. Below I copied the number to fill in for the row axis

Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 8.35.21 PM.png

MAF period:
83.3 101 107 114 119.8 123 128 132 136 139 143.5 150 160.5 173 178 183.5 188 193 200 207 210 215.5 220 226 242 259 275 290 320 330 360 410 450 500 540 590 605 635 650 1485


Once you have a log you click the box where my cursor is to make everything blue, from here right click on any of the blue squares and select copy.
Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 8.36.54 PM.png

Once you copy it, go to your MAF period table in your tune, click the square on the top right again to make everything blue, from here right click any blue square and pick paste special- "multiply by % half"

Screen Shot 2016-05-31 at 8.41.16 PM.png

after that save the file and datalog once more, you wash rinse and repeat until you end up +/- 3%

Is this correct or do i need to copy whats in my .hpt file over to my histogram.
Fuel trim tables.png

[Jn2]

See post below. It looks like your MAF period has different numbers from what my 2013 had. Below I copied the ones you want to use.

so to answer you, yes, you should copy over what is in your HPT file, which i did below to make it easier for you

[Jn2]

Use these instead of the ones I posted above for your histogram.

MAF Period:
90.3 93.6 97.5 101.0 103.7 105.9 108.3 110.9 112.4 115.5 119.1 123.3 134.1 141.3 150.3 162.6 180.1 187.1 192.6 199.1 206.7 215.3 225.1 236.5 250.1 267.0 277.0 288.6 316.5 335.3 359.3 391.0 413.4 439.2 475.8 525.5 610.4 661.5 711.5 1,400.0

Once those are set up in your histogram go out and drive the car, don't do WOT pulls yet, your trims are at +20 which means its adding 20% more fuel than what it is "suppose" to add based on MAF readings. Normally what I do is keep it below 50% throttle and just drive around at varying RPM's to make sure it samples that cell more than a few counts.

[TuneRS]

Use these instead of the ones I posted above for your histogram.

MAF Period:
90.3 93.6 97.5 101.0 103.7 105.9 108.3 110.9 112.4 115.5 119.1 123.3 134.1 141.3 150.3 162.6 180.1 187.1 192.6 199.1 206.7 215.3 225.1 236.5 250.1 267.0 277.0 288.6 316.5 335.3 359.3 391.0 413.4 439.2 475.8 525.5 610.4 661.5 711.5 1,400.0

Once those are set up in your histogram go out and drive the car, don't do WOT pulls yet, your trims are at +20 which means its adding 20% more fuel than what it is "suppose" to add based on MAF readings. Normally what I do is keep it below 50% throttle and just drive around at varying RPM's to make sure it samples that cell more than a few counts.

So I attempted everything you said and well, I am clearly doing something wrong. when logging i am only getting a reading at 90.3 on my ltft+stft pid.
I attempted changing another table to the same settings thinking maybe it was a issue with the channel. No luck. Attached are pictures and scanner logs. Once again thank you for your help and patience.

Fuel trim tables.png
Fuel trim tables.png
rs3 log attempt 2.hpl

[Jn2]

Yeah something is not configured right on your histogram. I ran into that once, let me double check mine. Can you post a screenshot of you histogram?


EDIT: I looked at mine and I am using the predefined LTFT+STFT PID under maths. Here is a screenshot of the histogram set up

[TuneRS]

Yeah something is not configured right on your histogram. I ran into that once, let me double check mine. Can you post a screenshot of you histogram?


EDIT: I looked at mine and I am using the predefined LTFT+STFT PID under maths. Here is a screenshot of the histogram set up

I will load a picture in about an hour when I make it home.
Also i believe i pulled mine from maths aswell. I will verify this though.


EDIT: Okay, so I checked, I am indeed pulling it from the maths section. Here is a screenshot of my histogram.

Fuel trim tables.png

[Jn2]

Weird, and that log you attached is a new log after having set up the histogram right?

[AKDMB]

Are you logging MAF Sensor Period? Is it in your channels?

[TuneRS]

Are you logging MAF Sensor Period? Is it in your channels?

No "maf sensor period" is not in my channels, i just added it. This should fix it?
And yes JN2 that log is with current histogram.

[AKDMB]

It might fix it. I was always under the impression of, if the software is going to perform a calculation with a piece of data, that that piece of data needed to be logged. HPT might have made it to where if one of the histograms uses a certain parameter then the software automatically logs it in the background. You will need to make another data log to see if it fixes it. A short idle log should show you.

[TuneRS]

It might fix it. I was always under the impression of, if the software is going to perform a calculation with a piece of data, that that piece of data needed to be logged. HPT might have made it to where if one of the histograms uses a certain parameter then the software automatically logs it in the background. You will need to make another data log to see if it fixes it. A short idle log should show you.

I will log the car and post back in a about 30 minutes.

EDIT: logged the car, everything works, going to start logging, so who wants to help me diagnose a tune problem causing 6* of knock
Explanation: this is a ghost cam tune, car idling quick blip of throttle leads to knock, if I ease into it no knock recorded, and no knock any other time.

2013 mustang ghost cam v4.hpt
knock.hpl

[Jn2]

It might fix it. I was always under the impression of, if the software is going to perform a calculation with a piece of data, that that piece of data needed to be logged. HPT might have made it to where if one of the histograms uses a certain parameter then the software automatically logs it in the background. You will need to make another data log to see if it fixes it. A short idle log should show you.

That is how it works, every PID you want to log should be set up in your channels list. Thats why I linked the thread where the other guy had asked for a v3.0 config. So he can go in there and grab my channel config

[Jn2]

I will log the car and post back in a about 30 minutes.

EDIT: logged the car, everything works, going to start logging, so who wants to help me diagnose a tune problem causing 6* of knock
Explanation: this is a ghost cam tune, car idling quick blip of throttle leads to knock, if I ease into it no knock recorded, and no knock any other time.

2013 mustang ghost cam v4.hpt
knock.hpl

You may to update the histogram on the log you posted, I opened it and the log and it's still running the MAF period that I originally posted, may want to update that to the following:

90.3 93.6 97.5 101.0 103.7 105.9 108.3 110.9 112.4 115.5 119.1 123.3 134.1 141.3 150.3 162.6 180.1 187.1 192.6 199.1 206.7 215.3 225.1 236.5 250.1 267.0 277.0 288.6 316.5 335.3 359.3 391.0 413.4 439.2 475.8 525.5 610.4 661.5 711.5 1,400.0


I posted all my configs in this thread. You can use them to help you get started

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...-14-Mustang-GT

[TuneRS]

It's updated correctly, when you view my log you may be viewing under your scanner configuration and not mine.

EDIT:
so it appears as I log my maf wash and repeat that my cam idle gets even more unstable, its commanded to idle at 950 and it hardly makes it to 600 rpm now.

[toyoguru]

Are you modifying the maf period table in the area that it idles at while running the cammed tune? I would suggest not tuning that table in the idle areas while running the cammed tune..the airflow and the a/f ratio isn't constant enough due to the overlap to get a proper read and will throw fueling/spark way off.

[TuneRS]

Yes I was, my car is dialed in, however when I went for the ghost cam tune according to your thread I had a very inconsistent chop, it always chops just almost sounds as if its varying in overlap, some times it'll rock the car sounding like 70-75* of overlap then it will smooth out sounding like a very mild cam(sorry that's my best description without a quality video) so based on that I had crazy maf readings at idle and on my log every time my idle dipped so would fuel trims which is why I rescalled the MAF. Which as you know made things worse. Any idea on how to tune the inconsistencies of the chop out?

[Witt]

Yes I was, my car is dialed in, however when I went for the ghost cam tune according to your thread I had a very inconsistent chop, it always chops just almost sounds as if its varying in overlap, some times it'll rock the car sounding like 70-75* of overlap then it will smooth out sounding like a very mild cam(sorry that's my best description without a quality video) so based on that I had crazy maf readings at idle and on my log every time my idle dipped so would fuel trims which is why I rescalled the MAF. Which as you know made things worse. Any idea on how to tune the inconsistencies of the chop out?

Try making the changes stated in this thread to the Closed Loop PI controller...

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...Ghost-Cam-Info