2015 Mustang GT Throttle drops at 5000rpm WOT

[rhinogt]

Ok, I've been trying to track this issue down for a little while now with no luck. Under WOT, my throttle angle is 90 unitl ~5000rpm, then it drops to 83 throughout the rest of the pull.

When this happens, I have noticed the following changes in the log:
Throttle Angle Source: TQ Red. < Driver Demand
Driver Demand Limit Source: Insufficient Fuel Flow

My command Lambda at this point is .84 and it is always at or below this when it happens. Even when I first noticed this issue, I was commanding .83 and it was at or below that.

93-15.hpt
th1.hpl

Don't pay attention to the spark, I am TDY and wasn't sure of the fuel quality here so I threw in some booster.

[murfie]

Engine>Airflow>Electronic throttle>CLIP/ADD torque -- Max Torque
Ive read setting your maximum torque much higher than what the engine actually produces can cause issues. It calculates engine load from the MAF curve then translates that into torque.

Engine>airflow> General> IPC -- maximum MAP

Your X axis only goes up to 5300RPMs. Your Y axis goes up to 1.0. The resolution of this table should cover all possible RPMs vs Loads that are reachable. You exceed both.

Engine>torque managment> torque calculation-- tables 21 and 22

check out 5000rpms and .9 - 1.1 load. thats over a 100ftlb jump and almost 100ftlbs more than the stock values in those cells.

[rhinogt]

ok, so late last night I was bored so I basically started back over from scratch on off of the stock stune. I went through those tables,

Engine>airflow> General> IPC -- maximum MAP : This table is completely stock.

Engine>torque managment> torque calculation-- tables 21 and 22 : These are back to stock as of this morning.

I will log some more after work this afternoon to see if that helps.

[rhinogt]

Ok those changes didn't help. Still getting same symptoms ~5000rpm on up.

[Higgs Boson]

put your fuel cut torque ratio back to stock
IPC Torque Max and Min, put back to stock
Stoich AFR Max and Min put to 14.08
Fuel Override set to 1.0
COT Lean Cruise Tab, just disable all three drop downs
I agree, move CLIP/ADD back to something like 425 or lower unless you are boosted
Your Throttle Body model Effective and Angle tables max out at 83 but you changed Max to 90. I would change the TB tables to max at 90 also if you are going to do that
change your max speed limiter to 180 instead of 186 in the field and the table

[murfie]

Do one at a time. I'm curious exactly what causes insignificant fuel flow. I thought for sure it was going to be not seeing enough air and there for couldn't provide enough fuel to meet what the ecu was expecting in the torque tables. Other than that the lambda looks fine to me I'm not sure why it thinks it can't provide enough.
Does increasing this to 90* actually do anything? Looking at the throttle body it already is at a slight angle when fully closed. I also don't see any noticeable drop,decrease, or increase in the rate the maf is climbing when the throttle goes from 90* to 83*.

[rhinogt]

I have been doing one at a time because I also want to know exactly what is causing it. Having throttle max set at 90 doesn't do anything near as I can tell, so I put that back to stock. However, everyone keeps saying to have the max throttle angle match the predicted throttle tables but they don't match stock. My computer died on me so I'm done for the night. I will pick back up in the morning with it. Overall, it drives fine and it's one of those things that unless you're logging, you would never notice it.

[rhinogt]

Well I have tried all the suggestions posted so far. None have changed what happens. Any other ideas out there? I appreciate all the help guys.

[Higgs Boson]

do we know your mods?

[rhinogt]

Essentially stock. Only things put in the engine bay are a bob's catch can and the velossatech insert.

[Higgs Boson]

Essentially stock. Only things put in the engine bay are a bob's catch can and the velossatech insert.

put the stock file back in it and see what it does.

[rhinogt]

Got it! Ok so I returned my DD tables to stock and bam its fixed. However I find it odd that everyone else's tunes I've compared to has these modified, yet only I seemed to have this problem.

[Higgs Boson]

Got it! Ok so I returned my DD tables to stock and bam its fixed. However I find it odd that everyone else's tunes I've compared to has these modified, yet only I seemed to have this problem.

I didn't look at your DD tables, lol. Yeah man I never edit those.

What did they look like / how did you change them?

[murfie]

That's why I missed it. Auto and Manual have different DD. I was comparing my Auto to his manual. You might be the only person paying enough attention to his logs. I wonder why 5000 was so significant. It looks like you DD was really high at 2500. The torque management tables were really high right at 5000.

Then going from 90* to 83* seems like it went from torque/load model to just straight speed density and the throttle body model only goes up to 83. So like Higgs said changing that should have fixed the throttle close, but the insufficient fuel may have remained.

DDdiff.PNG

[rhinogt]

Either way, I'll be leaving DD alone now, lol. My reasoning for editing them was thinking that you want it to demand more than it can provide so it gives you all it can give. Obviously that is wrong thinking. But like I said, other tunes I'd looked at had similar changes, yet no one else reported this issue. Oh well, it is fixed, and MAF flow at peak seems to be about the same.

[AKDMB]

I wouldn't mind getting more info on increasing the driver demand. I always thought it was a commonly adjusted table to get better response. I guess you have to adjust a lot of the torque model afterwards since it seems to start with driver demand.

[rhinogt]

Well here is what I noticed. In the mid throttle areas it helps responsiveness a lot by modifying them, however all its really doing is making the engine go to higher loads sooner. But around town it's a lot more fun to drive that way.

[Higgs Boson]

Yeah driver demand is best left stock, if you want to speed up the pedal vs throttle then just adjust the pedal % tables.

More power is made the old fashioned way, by increasing the engines ability to move air.....not by changing when it moves air and it throws off what the computer expects vs what it's doing.

[FLtuner]

It's common practice in the Ford calibrations to raise the driver demand tables to get the throttle to feel like you want it, under wot conditions the driver demand tables are ignored. I have yet to seen an issue when raised correctly.

[Higgs Boson]

It's common practice in the Ford calibrations to raise the driver demand tables to get the throttle to feel like you want it, under wot conditions the driver demand tables are ignored. I have yet to seen an issue when raised correctly.

Older airflow based fords sure. These don't even use DD at wot.