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Thread: TPS drops while WOT ,, Mustang 5.0

  1. #1
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    TPS drops while WOT ,, Mustang 5.0

    Hello

    This is a customer's car , 2011 mustang 5.0L 6 speed with ( JLT CAI + catless + Roush mufflers

    i faced an issue where the TPS drops to %50 while WOT

    any idea ?
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    Last edited by Abdulaziz_pe; 04-06-2016 at 02:49 PM.

  2. #2
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    You need to set up your layout and channels. You are not logging any parameter that would tell us what is happening. You need to log each of the sources so you know when a limit kicks on

    side notes: did you disable LTFT?
    Last edited by Jn2; 04-08-2016 at 07:40 PM.

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner AKDMB's Avatar
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    I definitely think you need to log some different PID's. Personally I would get rid of Accelerator Position D (SAE), Throttle Position (SAE), Relative Throttle Position (SAE) and Commanded Throttle Actuator (SAE). You really need to log Throttle Angle and Throttle Angle Desired. These two PID's will show you the discrepancy between what throttle you want and the throttle you get. You can't really compare two different PID's that display different max throttle angles, like several of the ones you were logging. These PID's, Throttle Angle and Throttle Angle Desired both max out at 81 degrees . This is also helpful because this is the actual throttle angle that the Coyote maxes out at.

    Also, if you suspect that the throttle is closing you are going to need to log Torque Source and Throttle Angle Source.

    These should help you also Driver Demand Limit Source, Fuel Source, Spark Source
    Last edited by AKDMB; 04-08-2016 at 09:23 PM.

  4. #4
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    It may be closing the throttle to control engine torque output. When mine logged IPC Wheel Torque errors, it would reduce the throttle angle to bring the Engine Brake Torque down to the ETC Torque Request.

    Your MAF table probably needs to be adjusted to bring your STFT's closer to 0. Having this out of adjustment affects the torque calculations and more.
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  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner AKDMB's Avatar
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    Just noticed this. This is a naturally aspirated car? Why are you commanding .76 Lambda at WOT? Keep in mind a boosted 5.0 making 700+ hp will have a commanded lambda of around .76 to .78. Most people shoot for about .835 or so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AKDMB View Post
    Just noticed this. This is a naturally aspirated car? Why are you commanding .76 Lambda at WOT? Keep in mind a boosted 5.0 making 700+ hp will have a commanded lambda of around .76 to .78. Most people shoot for about .835 or so.
    I noticed that to but without the other sources being logged we don't know if that was a COT thing. It's set in the .7 range, forgot the actual number

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner AKDMB's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jn2 View Post
    I noticed that to but without the other sources being logged we don't know if that was a COT thing. It's set in the .7 range, forgot the actual number
    He was commanding .76 in the WOT Lambda table.

  8. #8
    Does anybody know what the definitions are for Throttle Angle Source and Driver Demand Limit Source? I have a similar issue although it is not as pronounced. When WOT, throttle angle will be 85 degrees until 4800-5000 RPM. At that point is drops to 83 degrees and I get the following:

    Throttle Angle Source: Torque Red < Driver Demand
    Driver Demand Limit Source: Insufficient Fuel Flow

    The car is stock aside from the tune at the moment. When the throttle angle drops my lambda is .83 which is what is commanded. Does anybody have any ideas where I need to look?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rhinogt View Post
    Does anybody know what the definitions are for Throttle Angle Source and Driver Demand Limit Source? I have a similar issue although it is not as pronounced. When WOT, throttle angle will be 85 degrees until 4800-5000 RPM. At that point is drops to 83 degrees and I get the following:

    Throttle Angle Source: Torque Red < Driver Demand
    Driver Demand Limit Source: Insufficient Fuel Flow

    The car is stock aside from the tune at the moment. When the throttle angle drops my lambda is .83 which is what is commanded. Does anybody have any ideas where I need to look?
    Have you tried leaning it out a bit more. Try commanding a .85 instead of .83 to see if it really is a fueling issue. That should bring your duty down a hair. Never seen Torque red though as a angle source

  10. #10
    I have not. here is how I have WOT lambda set:
    Up to 3500: .85
    4000: .84
    4500: .835
    5000: .83
    5500: .825
    6000 and up: .82

  11. #11
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    back to this case

    and i apreciate your comments guys

    i was fighting with torque tables ,, driver demand and IPC Torque Maximum

    eventhough i disabled OP Enrichment Req to avoide the car to run on Stoich while WOT

    it didn't go well in fact

    i traid 2013,2014 and 2015 with no issues at all

    apart of this 2011 i think there is a trick to this exact car

    check attachment


    mustang 2011.hpl2011 - mustang - alaa - t2.hpt

  12. #12
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    The MAF curve needs a lot of work. It looks like you are getting a lot of trans truncation and some oscillation that can be disabled, but I would start by fixing the MAF first. You should never have numbers out of ascending/ descending order. return the MAF curve to stock then multiply everything by 1.63 for a start. do some fine tuning with either the fuel trims or the lambda commanded vs actual. This will prevent you from seeing 60+ lb/min and -18% fuel trims. It will also fix your calculated load in your torque tables and most likely help with the limits.

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    you need to adjust your driver demand

    your MAF is really messed up

    IPC put back to stock, thats very high
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    you need to adjust your driver demand

    your MAF is really messed up

    IPC put back to stock, thats very high

    what would you suggest in relation to driver demand ?

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    from stock increase top row 15/20%
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    from stock increase top row 15/20%
    Wouldn't that be top row for SCT and bottom row for HPTuners?

  17. #17
    Advanced Tuner 15PSI's Avatar
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    Correct. They are reverse order tables between SCT and HPT.
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  18. #18
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    top as meaning TPS related, 545 row i believe
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