Scoop on Wide Band O2 Sensors???

[Rockrz]

I've been rading up on tuning and I'm hearing that wideband 02 sensors provide much more accurate readings of air/fuel ratios which helps in tuning the engine to be as efficient as possible

So, for a Chevy truck with 5.3L LS that I'm doing a few things to in anticipation of getting tuned... I'd like to explore the idea of having one gauge that has dual read outs, one for each wideband 02 sensor

Anybody recommend a particular brand / kit that includes everything needed to install this?

I saw the Innovate Motorsports DLG-1 Dual Lambda Air Fuel Ratio AFR Wideband O2 Gauge 3891 on eBay and it looked reasonable... is this a good kit to consider?

Just trying to learn more about what kits are available so recommendations for this would be appreciated.

[Rockrz]

Also, I'm hearing AEM wideband 02 sensors do not have to be calibrated, or re-calibrated... is this true?

If so, seems like these would be more convenient to use.

[itsdaveonline]

My previous AEM unit did not require any calibration but it's 5v output was not linear which can make datalogging a pain. I would always question it's accuracy. My AEM also broke too. It did okay for a year or two... I'd recommend the AFR500. The screen on the box can let you check against your 5v output too for peace of mind. It's supposed to be one of the best widebands for accuracy. It's not crazy expensive either. Calibration is stupid easy. In a nutshell put the WB sensor in air for a while, turn knob untill the unit says it's calibrated

[Rockrz]

Thanks for the tip on the AEM AFR500 sensor being top rated.

Do I need one for both left and right banks?

And, do these wideband sensors replace two of my existing sensors, or do I need to install them separately?

Also, is there a kit that has everything I need for installation that is recommended?

[5FDP]

You only need one, drivers side is prefered by many, and it's an easier spot.

It must be welded in before the cat converter to work correctly.

It does not replace a sensor, it is it's own unit.

[Rockrz]

OK, thanks. Is there no benefit for tuning to have one for each bank?

Just curious cause I've seen gauges that have dual read outs for two sensors.

So, when tuning... what does the tuner do, just simply read the gauge as he is tuning the air/fuel mixture?

[mbray01]

The wideband is logged through the vcm scanner and used within a histogram to log fueling differences, therefore allowing the tuner to adjust fueling within the calibration accordingly. Installing a wideband for your personal preference is one thing, but if you are installing for your tuner, I wouldn't as he probably has one he uses exclusively.

[Rockrz]

The tuner I'm planning on using does use HP Tuners.

I emailed them and they said I was welcome to use my own equipment as far as wideband 02 sensors are concerned.

This is why I was asking what a good kit is that I should consider getting, hopefully one that has easy access to any data logging that he may be needing.

[mbray01]

Do a thread search. There is plenty of good advice on good wideband setups. The help section also lists wideband setups that are pre loaded within the vcm scanner for faster setup of logging
I personally use the afx setup with ntk sensor, but mounting that permanatly may be difficult(its a square box) vs a round gauge for a pod

[Rockrz]

OK, thanks. I was hoping to get feedback on which setups different folks use and why they like them.

I was thinking of mounting mine in the glove box so when the guy is tuning he just opens the glove box and is able to see it right there.

That way, there won't be nutjobs peeking in my windows seeing gauges thinking the vehicle is high performance making it more of a target for theft. I'm setting up my truck to look like a sleeper anyway so it's pretty stock looking.

Also, I'm hearing AEM wideband 02 sensors do not have to be calibrated, or re-calibrated... is this true?

If possible, I'd like to not have to get under the truck and take the sensor out and do whatever it is that needs to be done to re-calibrate it.

[Rockrz]

Back in the day when all things were carburated, we used to have machines that would read the air fuel mixture by sticking a probe up the car's tailpipe.

The machine would display the current air/fuel mixture coming out of the exhaust and that enabled the accurate adjusting of the carburetor.

Is this method not viable anymore to stick a probe up the tailpipe when tuning a vehicle to see what the air/fuel mixture is so you can adjust it as needed?

Seems like if it was, something like this could take the place of having to install a wideband O2 sensor.

[5FDP]

Cat converter can be the issue, they can change the data after the exhaust flows through it.

And if anyone wants to mod their engine, knowing the AFR is pretty much a must. What if it starts going really lean and you don't know it, it burns up a piston or chips one. That's where having the gauge is handy, if you saw it running lean on a pull or on the strip you could let out before any major damage was done.

I never lived back in the carb days but I've seen enough video and in person proof that many carb'd motor run rich just to save their ass. Dark smoke like exhaust is a dead giveaway. And installing a wideband in a old carb'd car can gain you alot too if you like fine tuning.

[Rockrz]

So, how does a tuner get a decent tune on a vehicle that does not have a wideband sensor?

Do they just guess and leave it a little rich, or can they even know if it's rich or lean?

[JamesLinder]

IMHO, either use a wide band sensor or else you are just wasting your time.

[JamesLinder]

Although I run MAF tuned, I run open loop because I find that fuel trims do not work as intended with headers and the fuel trims actually detune a good tune.
I leave a wide band installed in the front bung on the driver side header all the time and mount the control box under the dash, which feeds a DashDAQ readout
on the windshield. I feel that the front bung gives you a better representation of the AFR in the cylinder than installing in a rear header bung just because of the
additional distance the exhaust travels before you get a reading. So there is less delay or lag using the front bung. Dual sensors are fine to make certain both
banks of your motor are behaving the same, however as far as I know you can only use one of the sensors to tune with at a time. I guess if I were to run closed
loop, I would put the wide band in the rear bung just so I could keep in in service at all times I'm driving; if AFR starts acting up then I know I have an issue with
MAF, one or more injectors, fuel pressure, etc.

[Rockrz]

OK, I'm still trying to figure out exactly what hardware I need to buy for a good wideband O2 sensor setup...

I found this kit on Amazon at...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01...r_1_13&sr=8-13

If I went with this... does the tuner use this hardware just when tuning and then it can all be removed and put in the closet (except for the sensors being in the exhaust pipe of course) until next time the tuner needs to read the wideband sensors?

I found another kit on Amazon at...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01...r_1_11&sr=8-11

I assume the wiring comes with it as it does with the kit mentioned above... so with this one, it comes with a guage that can be mounted in the vehicle somewhere.

With this kit, do you just leaves all the hardware in place and the tuner uses it initially as well as if a re-tune is needed... and it's otherwise inactive?

Is this stuff somehow wired in to the vehicle's computer system or something so the ECM can know the actual air fuel mixture from the wideband sensors? Or, the ECM does not connect to the wideband sensors and the kit is only used by the tuner?

I get it that wideband allows a tuner to see actual air fuel mixture and it enables a much more accurate tune concerning fuel and air... especially if there is an wideband O2 sensor for left and right bank.

I'm still trying to figure out what hardware to get so I can get an idea of what to buy exactly and how to wire it all in... for power I'll probably opt to use one of the two the power ports under my dash (looks kinda like a cigarette lighter plug in) to avoid splicing in to any of my truck's wiring and of course the sensors fit into a bung welded in to the exhaust pipe on each side before the converter.

If anybody has any comments to help me understand the hardware part a little better, I'd appreciate it...

[Rockrz]

How about this kit?

Innovate Motorsports 3807 LM-2 Digital Dual Air/Fuel Ratio Wideband Meter (2 O2 Sensors) and OBD-II Scan Tool

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...r_1_10&sr=8-10

This ought to be a good one, right?

I know an exhaust guy, so I can have him install the bungs on each bank a few inches from the stock O2 sensors right?

[5FDP]

You do not need a dual kit, one sensor is all you need.

Having two isn't going to help you any, I'm pretty sure this isn't going to be a balls to the wall build.

Just buy one single sensor with gauge and install it on the drivers side. (Like I said in my first post)

If you have the HP Tuners pro setup, you can wire the data logging wire straight into the MPVI itself and create the PID to watch the wideband in the table display. Otherwise if you have no pro, then you can still wire it in via other sensors that can be created to read the wideband. Like the EGR or AC switch outputs, you'll want to read up on those.

Or you can still tune the car without data logging in HP Tuners, it's a tad harder but can still be done with a good tuner that knows what they are doing.

[Rockrz]

OK, thanks. I have HP Tuners, but I'm going to be using a local tuner that does some high end cars (ASE Certified, owns a bust performance shop) so he's knowledgeable versus me trying to learn on my own vehicle which I really don't have time for (I run my own business, so tweaking my ride is my hobby).

OK, so I go with the single wideband O2 sensor on the driver's side... what kit do I buy that will enable datalogging for the tuner to give him what he needs?

I'm just wanting ideas on what brand and model kit to buy.

[5FDP]

Innovate, aem and others should all come with a sensor/wires/gauge and should have a 1-2 wires that can be used to wired into a tuner of sorts.

I bought AEM's in the recent years and they have 2 wires off wire harness that can be wired into whatever you need.