ZR1 Meth tune opinions

[ZO6_Bryan]

I have been helping my buddy tune his 2013 ZR1. He has done a BTR stg 3 cam. Upper and lower pulleys. 2.35 upper and 14% lower from Lingenfelter. Not sure of lower size. ARH headers, ID850 injectors, Ported blower and ported snout.

I have tuned it for him in both SD and MAF mode. Had everything dialed in well and ran great.

Then he added meth injection and took it to a pro tuner to tune the meth specifically.
Now when he tries to make a 1/4 pass it will do well the first time. But on the 2nd pass it goes into "reduced engine power" and shuts it down until you clear the PCM.

I do see the pro tuner reversed all the SD tuning I did on it. But he also set it up to disable speed density. And the values he put in to all the SD tables are not the stock ZR1 numbers. So I don't know where he came up with them.

I have a suspicion as to why it goes into REP. But I'd like some other opinions.
So here is his stock file, the file I had in the car before the meth was added, and the pro tune for the meth.
Ideas?

[ZO6_Bryan]

And P1516 is the code that gets thrown when it goes into REP mode.

[GHuggins]

Looks like he took a big abrupt chunk out of the maf to hit his a/f target with meth. Most likely shooting way too much meth on top of everything. Hope your friend never experiences system failure on his meth system. Will be seriously lean under boost... Most likely why the airflow codes are setting now. Curious though after seeing the timing maps. How much power did it put down before and after the tune? "pro tuners" timing looks like "flat - lined" junk?

[ZO6_Bryan]

Different dyno, but no more power on meth than I had it making w/o meth. 742 rwhp 711 tq

[ZO6_Bryan]

P1516 is for the TAC module. I figure it sees a sudden drop in mass air, because what he did with the MAF table, but doesn't see a correlating change in throttle position. So that causes the shut down.

[ZO6_Bryan]

BTW when we had it on the dyno playing with the meth (before the pro tune) we had turned the gain on the meth all the way down to "1" and it was still drowning the engine and killing the power. I told him he should put smaller jets/nozzles in and try again. 100% meth also.

[ABADZL1]

Bryan,
I'm taking my ZL1 to GPI friday to see what kind of power im making and further tweaking if necessary. I talked to the owner over the phone and he told me that running meth is pretty much a must being that I'm over 10psi of boost. I asked all the questions I could think of at the time and I remember him telling me they use a 50/50 mix of water meth, not 100%. The system they use is solenoid activated by the maf Hz signal. But thats really all I know about it. I guess I will be talking to Ryan about it and asking more questions. I did ask about washer fluid, he said it was a little too much diluted to be effective. Before your friend changes nozzles, check into the 50/50 mix.
What's the name of the system on the vette? Just curious

[GHuggins]

The reason why people will recommend or say to use 50/50 is because the systems they sale won't work with 100%... Alky control "I think" is the absolutely only one "truly" able to run 100% meth. I normally run them somewhere in the middle of the 2 and 4 settings to get best power without flooding out the motors - usually like 3.3ish? Other products will start leaking at the fittings if using 100%. I only use 1 nozzle even on the 1000+hp builds. This is where a lot of people will make their mistake as well?

Agree with you Bryan on the reason why it's setting the TAC codes

[ZO6_Bryan]

He is running the Alky Control on his vette. We also talked about 50/50 mix but he has been told to go 100% by someone. It really just seems to me that he has just swapped one fuel for another.
And he is using two nozzles. size 10 I think.

[realcanuk]

With that power a single nozzle would be enough. The dual nozzle that alky ships standard is a 10 and 15, and too much for that level. The controller should not be run to low. I wouldn't run it under 6 or 7. I personally run with a water/meth mix and it can work fine that way , or on pure meth.
Ideally, with a PD blower like that, it is better to control the meth off the MAF, rather than the MAP. They get into boost very early, and running off the MAP can cause too much meth early, and then loading up by the time higher rpm is reached.

I didn't look at the tunes yet... I will a bit later on and see if I see anything.

[schpenxel]

Whose idea was it to zero out all of the spark correction tables?

I agree with realcanuk though.. that's too much meth. I'd rather do a single M10 or M15 and turn the controller up vs. a twin nozzle setup and the controller turned down.

Is it running the stock throttle body?

[ZO6_Bryan]

Whose idea was it to zero out all of the spark correction tables?

I agree with realcanuk though.. that's too much meth. I'd rather do a single M10 or M15 and turn the controller up vs. a twin nozzle setup and the controller turned down.

Is it running the stock throttle body?

Pro tuners idea to zero out all the spark tables. And he has a 90 mm LS3 throttle body.

Very well known pro tuner.

[ZO6_Bryan]

Shouldn't the PE table be used to accommodate for the meth? To pull some fuel?

Not the MAF table like they did?

[PDYoung]

I too have the Alky Control system on my truck. Julio ,the owner of Alky recommends %100 meth if it is a pre blower injection. He says water in a mixture will force itself into the rotor bearing pre boost. i went with his recommendation. I had Jeremy Formato tune my system and he set the gain at 6, works well. I too only have 1 nozzle, making 580 whp

[realcanuk]

Personally, I do it with the PE and /or BE tables. With the way that maf curve looks, it must be dumping a ton in suddenly. I would try eliminating 1 nozzle, starting with the controller at 7 ish... and adjusting the turn on a ramp rate.
With the PD blower its tough if running meth off the MAP, because it can get into boost at very low rpm, where you really don't want meth. Might look into running it off the maf, if it isn't now.

Why the TB change..... have a feeling that could cause issues..

[ZO6_Bryan]

It wasn't Formato

[ZO6_Bryan]

It is triggering off a map sensor included in kit. The throttle body was fine for several months before the meth kit was added.

[schpenxel]

On mine I took some out of the VE table where the meth comes in to try to keep the AFR from dipping too much. It makes the VE table look weird but it works pretty consistently so I've been OK with it. My alky control kit is triggered by boost (not MAF), so that is why it works consistently

Looks like this tuner tried to do the same just via the MAF table instead of VE. I don't think that's a good way of doing it unless you're triggering the meth from the MAF sensor. Otherwise it's not consistent enough to work IMO

I would go back to stock TB and see if that helps

[realcanuk]

I too have the Alky Control system on my truck. Julio ,the owner of Alky recommends %100 meth if it is a pre blower injection. He says water in a mixture will force itself into the rotor bearing pre boost. i went with his recommendation. I had Jeremy Formato tune my system and he set the gain at 6, works well. I too only have 1 nozzle, making 580 whp

Julio definitely knows his stuff, but I don't really agree with the water comment. I ran water/meth mix on my eforce for 3 years, and it like know when I took it off, inspected, and sold it. There are many schools of thought on the pure or not, but both seem to work for people. Either way, not an issue with the ops problem.

[realcanuk]

It is triggering off a map sensor included in kit. The throttle body was fine for several months before the meth kit was added.

Yes... most trigger off the map in the kit, but if Julio knows it is for a PD blower, he recommends off the maf instead. If the REP started with that tune change, then I guess it could be related to the big change in the maf. I am not sure, but doesn't sound like anything else changed, unless there is a mechanical issue and it is just coincidence it started at the same time.