Fast 57# injector data

[camj256]

Hey, so I'm VERY new to this - started reading all the FAQ and some tuning stuff and I know I have a ways to go. I would very much like to get this car moving again though.

I bought some ls2 style fast 57# injectors: FST-30572-8 I have a heads/cam ctsv.

When I first started reading I thought all I had to do was update the flow rate vs kpa table. I did that and set it to
56.98 57.35 57.73 58.04 58.41 58.78 59.09 59.46 59.77 60.14 60.45 60.76 61.14 61.45 61.76 62.13 62.44

Tried to turn the car on and it went super rich and died off pretty quick.

Any help? I'm lost. Please don't tell me to buy a 300 dollar DVD after just buying this software. I may do that soon but I really need to get the car running right now.

Also, side note, its not letting me sign up with the new customer thing to look at the tune repository for some reason. I'll probably call tomorrow, i bought from summit. Any trick to this? I just have serial and key.

Thanks!

Cameron

[eficalibrator]

I bought some ls2 style fast 57# injectors: FST-30572-8 I have a heads/cam ctsv.

...Please don't tell me to buy a 300 dollar DVD after just buying this software. I may do that soon but I really need to get the car running right now.

My DVD won't help you with data for the FAST injectors anyway. I have yet to see actual useful data for them in any format. The Data Disc that's included in my GM Tuning Beginner's Guide only has characterization data for the Ford Racing Injectors (when run at GM pressures), since those were the only ones that we had trustworthy data from which to work. Injector Dynamics also publishes excellent data on their injectors as well, but the smallest they currently offer is the ID850, which flows about 93#/hr at GM pressure.

You might try contacting ZIP products. They have an injector that is about 60#/hr at GM pressure with complete characterization data as well. You will almost certainly always have issues if you try to stick with an injector that you never really properly calibrated for in the PCM.

[camj256]

So how do people actually use these injectors then? There are so many injectors on the market I cant imagine everyone only buys one and that these companies try and sell these injectors without data? Seems kinda crazy. It sounds like i'm going to have a really hard time getting these injectors to work. I'm not sure if I'll be able to return them or not. :/

[98vortecSilverado]

I had wondered that myself awhile back. Only thing I could figure was the aftermarket self tuning efi controllers that run closed loop with a wideband and are designed to have a few simple inputs and be up and running, might be able to get away with an injector that doesn't have all the proper data. In my opinion their calibration as a whole has to be a lot less involved then a proper GM calibration. Therefore they probably don't have all the tables to adjust and just get away with it by running their closed loop wideband setup. Anyway just my opinion, but its a pretty well accepted fact on here that you'd better start with good injector data if you want a good outcome.

[camj256]

Alright, so what injectors do I buy then guys? I'm willing to put in time to learn this software and about tuning but my car has been down for 2 weeks now so I'm definitely a little impatient. I guess what I'm trying to say is I would like to get some injectors around 60# that will idle alright and I can find a tune on here to just copy/paste injector data. I know Injector Dynamics has that but they are about 1k and quite large injectors. And I think I read something about Siemens Decka 60# injectors but I think the injector data was hidden away on a 250 dollar DVD which definitely raises the cost of those. Is there anything I can get in the 400-500 range with free HP Tuners Data?

Thanks!!

I did talk to ZIP and found these - looks like all the data comes with them. Anything on the cheaper side though?
http://www.zip-corvette.com/05-07-ls...jectors-1.html

[98vortecSilverado]

Factory GM injectors are a very cost effective route, as you can copy their data from a stock calibration for the vehicle they came from. I have a set of ls9 injectors that I bought on ebay for around 180 bucks. Found a zr1 file in the repository and go them to run fine. They would be rated at 52 or 56 lb, but the zr1 has a supercharger intake (the injectors have a different spray pattern too) which has totally different flow characteristics and therefore you would need to adjust the the fuel transient number in your calibration. I would say that is doable with your wideband, but it won't be as good as GM can do. The truck I put those injectors in had an aftermarket single plane intake, so the transients were all screwed up anyway. As far as I can tell If you can't make do with GM injectors your most economical route otherwise is to go with Greg's DVD for data and whatever injectors he's got in there.

[camj256]

So I was talking to DeatschWerks and it looks like they have all their data as far as I can tell. About 650 shipped. I have the ls6 but my fast 102 and fuel rails are set up for the LS2 style. Which I think does have a different spray pattern as well. I actually don't have a wideband at the moment but plan on getting one very soon. If I went with the DW and their 60# injectors and data could I get the car drive-able from that?

The tune I had before this was just for the heads/cam/exhaust. I put on a new CAI, went from 78 to 90mm TB, a ported fast 102, AND the injectors. So, it sounds like my transients will be screwed up anyway?

I actually don't know much about fuel transients anyway. I have a LOT of reading to do this weekend.


Before I order though, any reasons not to order the 60# DeatchWerks LS2 Style for an LS6 motor. At what point do you have to start scaling?

Thanks again!

[mattmonaro]

Hey, so I'm VERY new to this - started reading all the FAQ and some tuning stuff and I know I have a ways to go. I would very much like to get this car moving again though.

I bought some ls2 style fast 57# injectors: FST-30572-8 I have a heads/cam ctsv.

When I first started reading I thought all I had to do was update the flow rate vs kpa table. I did that and set it to
56.98 57.35 57.73 58.04 58.41 58.78 59.09 59.46 59.77 60.14 60.45 60.76 61.14 61.45 61.76 62.13 62.44

Tried to turn the car on and it went super rich and died off pretty quick.

Any help? I'm lost. Please don't tell me to buy a 300 dollar DVD after just buying this software. I may do that soon but I really need to get the car running right now.

Also, side note, its not letting me sign up with the new customer thing to look at the tune repository for some reason. I'll probably call tomorrow, i bought from summit. Any trick to this? I just have serial and key.

Thanks!

Cameron

MAP (kPa) 0 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 60 65 70 75 80
Injector Flow (g/sec) 7.182 7.2416190562 7.3007512702 7.3594083773 7.4176016487 7.4753419168 7.5326395989 7.5895047192 7.6459469287 7.7019755252 7.7575994706 7.8128274076 7.8676676757 7.9221283258 7.9762171337 8.0299416137 8.0833090299
If your fuel pressure is 43.5 psi then put these figures into INJECTOR FLOW RATE vs KPA table. 7.18 being 0 kpa and 8.08 being 80 kpa

[SSUte01]

What's wrong with Siemens Deka 60s, can get them in either short or long to suit early or late model with EV1 or EV6 plug. I've had plenty of success with them with various fuel types NA and FI. There may be better out there, but given they are well characterised and well priced they are a good option. Can't speak for DW injectors as I haven't used them.

[schpenxel]

People use them all the time, though I had some pretty significant differences in fuel trims from bank 1 vs. 2. Switched to ID's and now the difference is 1-2% max. So, I can only guess that the deka 60's weren't as consistent.

Be careful... several manufactures are claiming to have injector data. Some people just copy ID's, some people just make stuff up. I don't know anything about Deutschworks so I'm not saying they fall in either category, but do some reading to try to find out before you buy them

ID's are the easiest/best option IMO, but they are not cheap. I'm running ID1000's on a stock displacement LS2 with zero idle issues. As long as you have the proper data to control the injectors and they behave predictably, bigger than you need isn't an issue (I wouldn't go throwing ID2000's on a 5.7L or anything.. but within reason it matters a lot less than it used to)

If you just literally want the car to start then reduce the airflow tables (whether it's VE or MAF) in idle regions a few times to see if you can get it to stay running.

[camj256]

Thanks guys! I feel a little ripped off by the support from fast. I had them in for about 15 seconds of total running time and I think I'm going to attempt to return them. They smell a little bit like gas. I'm hesitant to say exactly where I bought them from but it was one of the big ones, texas speed, jegs, summit. Anyone ever try returning injectors before? I feel like I just took a 400 dollar hit on this. I'm pretty sure i'm going to go with the DW's though.

Thanks for all the help! I watched the demo of the calibrated success and I learned more in the 15 min there than I did in hours and hours of reading these forums. I think I'm probably going to grab that too!

[Jay@HAP]

It has probably been mentioned but FAST does not supply any good injector data. We installed a set of FAST injectors that came with Procharger's kit on a LS3 Vette. Idle trims were awful and did not respond to any tuning changes. Three cylinders had misfires which were verified by moving the injectors to other cylinders and the miss followed. We replaced the FAST injectors w/ ID850's and everything was great. We will never use FAST injectors again.

[odom1957]

I'm running Bosch Blue Demon injectors on my L31. They seem to work as intended, and the data was very thorough. They came with a spreadsheet for all the different pcms. Copy and paste and done.