3.5 EcoBoost Advice?

[Vlad@NSI]

OK. Bear with me, we will find this limit and get around it.

Any luck with the comb stability limit? 2014 SHO

[96gt4.6]

I am also hitting the same limit.

2015 F150 3.5 EB

I can't seem to find anything in the Comb. Stability limits that should be coming into play......

[metroplex]

Did you check out my SHO tuning guide? I don't have the combustion stability limit error on my 14 SHO.

[96gt4.6]

I have yet to fully review it, i'll head over there and take a look see sir!

I also want to extend an honest "Thank You" for your continued efforts on the Eco tuning development, as well as the very informative and thought out How-to's so far. A lot of time and effort goes into doing such things, which allow those of us still poking to utilize said processes to speed up our learning curve.

Everyone's efforts from the beginning of this thread until now, is very much appreciated.

Also, a big thanks to Eric and HP Tuners for continuing to grow and support this platform.

Al

[Vlad@NSI]

I have found that if you change the "0's" in table "knock retard limit [50233] the car wont start. Just an FYI

Going to call this SHO finished for now. Made 430hp/476tq easing into the throttle on a dynojet. Thanks for the guide Metroplex the couple tables I changed reading that guide got rid of my comb stability limit.

[metroplex]

I have yet to fully review it, i'll head over there and take a look see sir!

I also want to extend an honest "Thank You" for your continued efforts on the Eco tuning development, as well as the very informative and thought out How-to's so far. A lot of time and effort goes into doing such things, which allow those of us still poking to utilize said processes to speed up our learning curve.

Everyone's efforts from the beginning of this thread until now, is very much appreciated.

Also, a big thanks to Eric and HP Tuners for continuing to grow and support this platform.

Al

Thanks!
I just hope the guide helps the DIY tuning community get up to speed on EcoBoost.

For your application, I think the 2015-up F-150's are missing 50539 Clip Inverse Torque, 55011 Pressure Ratio (this needs to be raised), 2843 Maximum Torque, and several other key tables.
The F-150s use Exhaust Temp Inverse, while the SHOs used Flange Temp Inverse (under Fuel -> COT). I'd look at the Exhaust Temp Inverse table and raise those values to something like 2.300 to see if it gets rid of the Combustion Stability error. But without Pressure Ratio, Clip Inverse Torque, and the other tables, you'll most likely still be limited to stock torque values/boost/airloads or you'll be slightly above stock.

[caniggia]

What i found, even if it displasy comb stability, exahust temp limits, insufficient fuel limits etc, it doesn't limit in real.
I currently can control system without fouling system, drivier demand adjust per you need, then turbo tip desired plus raise load limits and it goes where you want.

[metroplex]

Hmmm, for my SHO the boost levels would still be limited if I saw Comb Stability/Exhaust Temp/Insufficient Fuel errors. I couldn't figure out the correlation for Driver Demand adjustments, it didn't seem to correlate with actual torque produced. For example, the SHO's stock calibration called for 349 ft-lb max in Driver Demand. You could increase that to 400 ft-lb, 420 ft-lb, 450 ft-lb, or 600 ft-lb and it would still raise the boost levels until it hit other limiters like Pressure Ratio and Max Desired TIP. I found that it was a bit easier to just set an absolute Max Desired TIP pressure for what I wanted and monitored MAP boost. If you monitor just TIP boost, it could be misleading. While experimenting on the SHO (when I set WOT start/end values), the TIP boost could go as high as 30 psi but the MAP boost was still at stock levels - this resulted in the nice blow-off sound when I closed the throttle, but no gains in performance.

[caniggia]

Max tip desired tip needs to be adjusted, that's 100% sure.
What may be wrong, is what i found today and reported, maybe 3.5 has this same problem.
Log shows max 255Kpa of manifold pressure no matter what is set above this value, but real boost goes higher, i checked it with boost gauge and wih dash display. I was commanding more boost, but i was getting more knock retard, so i was confused, log don't show more boost, but timing get crazy, that's why i started investigation about boost.
I started today with 18 psi stock, after removing all limits i got 22 psi, then finally after adjustng DD and turbo torque tables i finished at 26 psi.

[metroplex]

Hmmm, I've never had my MAP stay limited to 255 kPa / 36.9 psi
What psi did you see a lot of knock retard? What did you end up doing to the DD table?

I went back to all of my old logs and found that anything above 18 psi for the SHO would result in a lot of knock retard without much more air massflow over 16-18 psi. I'm seeing about 1-3 lb/min more massflow going from 16 psi to 18 psi, so the gains aren't a whole lot but 19-21 psi would yield another 1-3 lb/min, but with 7.5* or more knock retard which negates the gains from the extra airflow (rough estimates: about 9.46 hp per 1 lb/min vs. 4 hp per 1* of timing)

In short, I found that 16-17 psi is a safe level for the SHO running 93 octane and 18 psi is probably the highest to go on 93 octane without messing with the spark tables. The stock tune runs about 11-12 psi on the SHO. Anything above 18 psi would result in more knock retard with minor gains in airflow. The F-150 is different because of the K03 turbos vs the GT1549s on the transverse engines.

[caniggia]

It was bacuse i was not correcting timing because i thought boost was not raising. Now it's running 370 crank hp at 26 psi and around -2 to 0 final timing.
Occasionally i get now overboost error even if all reguesed delivered values are in line, and that's crazy, i disabled also overboost control and it's not helping.

I've put DD tables for start from Focus RS, but it's 2.3. I write here since it's only reliable topic about EB engines.

[caniggia]

Ok, finally it works so.

1. Set max tip to what you want
2. Lower driver demand for all gears for about 20 percent
3. Adjust driver demand to get into tip you set as max you requested
4. When you get point 3 to match tip, adjust wastegate to what you get in real

This way you will get boost you want on gear you want, no overboost errors.
Finally raise or in meantime if needed turbo limits, map values in torque settings and all other stuff may be needed.
Today I went to 32 psi of boost in 2.3, but limited it finally at 26 getting 600nm and 370hp at crank.

[metroplex]

I've never had to touch the waste gate tables.

[caniggia]

Its not needed, but then pcm can easier get into the point without guessing.

[96gt4.6]

These little guys are potent! This is a 5400lb Crew Cab 4x4 3.5L, 1.7 60'! Craziness!

[reubone]

What is driver demand in all gears

[caniggia]

What is driver demand in all gears

This is how much power u wan't in every single gear. Directly corresponded to how much boost you will get, this is by caluclating lot of other parameters, but as i said before, needs to be tuned if u want to get desired boost without overboost.

I got finally f150 EB so i'll upgrade my findings by 3.5 directly soon.

[LastPlace]

Any important new info you guys learned since the Mega update?

[metroplex]

Timing adjustments on the Ford's are a little more complex, no doudt. There are quite a few tables to modify to get it where you want it, depending on if Optimum Power mode is enabled, ect.

I'd have to peek into a '12 Tune and see if it's the same, but my '15 has the OP mode disabled factory, so it blends a mixture of the remaining tables, which are set at around 26 degrees maximum. On stock boost levels, this obviously is too much timing so they are using the Cylinder Pressure Limit table to keep it around 9 degrees. Interesting how it's setup all factory. I could raise the Cylinder Pressure limit table a bit to run a few more degrees on my setup, but right now i'm still deciphering boost control, which appears very different from the tables in the 11-14's. Once I get that panned out, i'll come back and move the timing up slowly.

Currently starting the turbo kit fabrication on my Turbo Coyote Marauder project, so it may be a bit before I hop back on the pickup, but i'm all ears to any help offered!

It's been awhile, but have you been successful in modifying the final spark advance on your F150?
I looked at the 2015 3.5 EB file in the repository. The Cylinder Pressure Limit is indeed set to about 14-16* at WOT conditions, but the borderline knock is set to single digit or near-zero spark at WOT conditions.
What's your actual spark advance reading at WOT (say, at the drag strip)?

My SHO stock file seems very different from EcoBoost Mustang/Focus RS/F-150 in that at WOT conditions, the spark advance is set to about 9*-11* advance. Optimum Power is disabled at the factory. The cylinder pressure, preignition, temp adders, and all the other tables the Coyote users are asking me to check are not really factors in the spark advance because basically I'll never reach those conditions to cause any timing retard. So at WOT at the strip (1.7+ load, 4000+ RPM), I'll only see about 9*-11* advance. If I push the GT15 turbos beyond their efficiency (say 17-18 psi), the spark drops a lot to a max of 6*-8*! Knock retard is never a factor in these conditions and nothing is being pulled according to VCM Scanner. If I reduce boost a little, to about 15-16.75 psi, the spark goes to 9*-11* at WOT.

I tried adding more spark to the borderline knock, but everything gets pulled out as knock retard in 3rd gear. So if I added 4*-7* of advance to BKT, I'll see 4*-7* of knock retard.

[Higgs Boson]

I was only able to get 5-6 degrees out of the last ecoboost I tuned. 8-9 had audible pinging.