Flushed 100$ down the toilet

[72vega383]

yesterday I read my pcm with hp tuners for the first time. I licensed the pcm and I cant find a compatible file for a segment swap. According to HP TUNERS customer support I liensed an oddball ECM and I cannot have my credits refunded to reflash a new OS on this computer. I figured after spending this much money on software there would be some understanding. They are aware that this PCM is not capable of any segments and its an oddball, yet nowhere does it list that there are some computers (like mine) not capable of programming for segments. I am not trying to pull one over on hptuners or anything like that. I licensed a pcm that has an incompatible OS. There is nothing in the tune respository and hptuners doesn't have a file I can use.

Isn't it only fair that I can license a different pcm or flash this one?

I can understand if I had been running this pcm for a year and decided to change the transmission now. But I just bought the software Wednesday, Received it Friday drove 3 hours to pick it up and paid duties to bring it across the Canadian border. Sunday I plugged it in. Today (Monday) HP tuners tells me I Cant use it and I will have to use 2 more credits or buy a year/model license for 5 more credits (that's 7 credits total for only one pcm and one vehicle) I just cant wrap my head around it. My PCM is not compatible with any segments yet hp tuners allows me to license it.

What should I do?

[Keith@HPTuners]

Not all PCM's support every feature available in VCM Editor or VCM Scanner.

The requirement to allow end users to license files is actual tuning support. If the software recognizes that we have already developed a definition for the file you open, it will allow you to license it.

[5FDP]

I would find another PCM and only spend two credits if I was in your shoes.


I don't say much on the topic of policy and the way they do business, but I do think some things could be changed in my eyes. I myself had a PCM that I too thought could be segment swapped with a manual trans file but they too said that it's a oddball pcm that was unable for anything to work.

Sometimes I think they could have given them 2 credits back because regardless they were hell bent on spending money with them anyway, but this is just another way to make more money and have them buy more credits. Or lower the credits cost because to me that would help everyone. More people would be inclined to buy more credits at once or gain more business because the cost is cheaper. You can't tell me they don't make alot of money off this stuff in the first place. Costs under 50 bucks to make a mpvi boxm I bet, couple microchips is all. Yes time and hours into getting it to work and building the whole thing from rock bottom is worth money. I doubt I'm even making much sense anymore, just flappin my gums.

[Keith@HPTuners]

It's easy to underestimate the cost that goes into making a product like ours.

As of this moment, we employ 17 people, and are in the process of moving into a larger facility since we have out grown our current one. We have people literally working in the lobby right now. We're growing, but we're still not some big operation that deals in high volume. Our hardware costs are way more than you stated, and come on, lets be real.. $100 for the license to tune your car as many times as you like is a pretty fair value.

If we were looking to be a more DIY type operation with less help/support staff, etc.. I could see us lowering the price for licenses, sure, but that's not what our goal is. We want to offer more professional products and more tuning solutions that solve issues enthusiasts face.

[72vega383]

It's easy to underestimate the cost that goes into making a product like ours.

As of this moment, we employ 17 people, and are in the process of moving into a larger facility since we have out grown our current one. We have people literally working in the lobby right now. We're growing, but we're still not some big operation that deals in high volume. Our hardware costs are way more than you stated, and come on, lets be real.. $100 for the license to tune your car as many times as you like is a pretty fair value.

If we were looking to be a more DIY type operation with less help/support staff, etc.. I could see us lowering the price for licenses, sure, but that's not what our goal is. We want to offer more professional products and more tuning solutions that solve issues enthusiasts face.

I am more than glad to pay the $100 to tune my vehicle but if my OS is not supported for segment swap I cannot run my car. therefore the pcm is useless to me. I just don't understand why its so difficult. My PCM cannot be used for my vehicle. I will never use it that means the 2 credits are also wasted. If there are known OS ID that are not capable that should be posted somewhere for users to see and it should tell you at or before the licensing page that this OS cannot be segment swapped. It doesn't make sense how I would have to find out from support after the fact that they are aware of oddball computers and its unfortunate tat I ended up with one and there is nothing they could do to solve my problem.

I understand that on your end I could very well be using the computer in another vehicle, selling it, saving it whatever. I don't just expect you to believe me, I am behind a computer and so is HPTUNERS Support. I would be more than happy to send the computer to you guys and you do with it what you will.

Heck I'd be glad to make a video destroying the thing and sent it to hptuners. Bottom Line is THIS PCM IS ABSOLUTELY NO GOOD TO ME IF I CANT DO A SEGMENT SWAP WITH IT.

I'm sure the product is more involved than most of us think and the credit system is a means of assuring that users aren't getting away with tuning for profit especially for free. I get it but seriously I licensed the pcm yesterday and find out I cant use it today from support how much could I have done in that time frame to rip anyone off. I just cant use the PCM plain and simple. To the trash goes my PCM along with 2 credits that were supposed to allow me to tune MY pcm unlimited amount of times.

I don't see how that's fair when HP Tuners knows there are known oddball PCM's but allows us to license them under the notion that the pcm are all compatible. The worst part is all I get back is "unfortunately there is nothing we can do"

[72vega383]

I paid 800 dollars for software wish there was an option for support.

[72vega383]

Its only fair to reimburse my two credits it hasn't even been 48 hours since I licensed. I would think you'd want your customers to spread the word about this product in a positive way. If customer service refuses to help there customers then I cant see people being happy.

Earlier this week. I had called summit racing. I ordered an autometer water temp adapter for the lsx engine. when I received it the threads were damaged I did not want to install it in my motor. I called them up a couples month after the order. I offered to send them the old one back for inspection. There was no need before I could finish my sentence the lady on the other end said to check my email for an order confirmation. My invoice shows priorty shipping to CANADA. It ended up costing them almost 50$ its a 10$ part.

That's Customer Service. I called to ask them what I should do with the part they TOLD me a new one is on its way! throw the old one out.

Its a good program no doubt but if I would have known the customer service was going to ignore me like this I would have purchased EFI LIVE

[hotrodneb]

It is obvious to me even as a novice user that you pour a lot of time and money into the product
I see reps of the company spend a lot of time posting and monitoring this forum
I see you investing a lot into staying on the "cutting edge" of product development.

Your "customer service" policies are not competitive in today's market. I would never suggest that you could go to a "Walmart style" return it for ANY reason, but your heavy-handed, "only the company is right" policy is more akin to accidently dialing a porn chat line.

Your customer credit policy does not communicate the same care that you show in EVERY other portion of your company.

[72vega383]

It is obvious to me even as a novice user that you pour a lot of time and money into the product
I see reps of the company spend a lot of time posting and monitoring this forum
I see you investing a lot into staying on the "cutting edge" of product development.

Your "customer service" policies are not competitive in today's market. I would never suggest that you could go to a "Walmart style" return it for ANY reason, but your heavy-handed, "only the company is right" policy is more akin to accidently dialing a porn chat line.

Your customer credit policy does not communicate the same care that you show in EVERY other portion of your company.

I could have said it any better.

Through the various emails to customer support they notified me that there are OS ID #s they know are not compatible for segments including mine and the program will still allow you to license them the same as any others. I had suggested to support make a "sticky" on the forum with a list of the oddball OS ID's so users like myself that need to do a segment swap will know before hand that these certain oddball computers should not be licensed if doing segment swaps. Instead I had to find out the next day that it is incompatible after opening over 100 files in the repository and when I asked customer support if they had a file I could use. All the emails before that basically just tell me to spend the 2 or 5 credits and license another PCM and there's nothing they can do for me now. What a money grab!! If anyone who's had the same problem with oddball PCMs wants to make a DO NOT LICENSE POST in the forum I would be glad to enter my OS on the list. If customer support doesn't want to help resolve the issue we need to atleast try and keep other new and old users from going thru this BS. We already know customer supports gonna shrug us off and find excuses for not making things right.

here is the last email response from support

====== Please reply above this line ======

all gen 3 operating systems are supported, finding a compatible file is up to YOU, not us.. I looked through the 50 or so compatible files I have and I don't have one compatible with the oddball operating system you have. Blame GM for their operating system structure.

William Henn
HP Tuners LLC
www.hptuners.com

I called GM they are going to charge me between 120 and 150 to flash a new OS on. Then I'll have to use 2 more credits to license it with HPT. Let's see that's 350 dollars to tune one computer. Be Proud HP Tuners. Keep the extra 100 bucks and keep taking from your customers. Good on You

[ElecTech]

Its only fair to reimburse my two credits it hasn't even been 48 hours since I licensed. I would think you'd want your customers to spread the word about this product in a positive way. If customer service refuses to help there customers then I cant see people being happy.

Earlier this week. I had called summit racing. I ordered an autometer water temp adapter for the lsx engine. when I received it the threads were damaged I did not want to install it in my motor. I called them up a couples month after the order. I offered to send them the old one back for inspection. There was no need before I could finish my sentence the lady on the other end said to check my email for an order confirmation. My invoice shows priorty shipping to CANADA. It ended up costing them almost 50$ its a 10$ part.

That's Customer Service. I called to ask them what I should do with the part they TOLD me a new one is on its way! throw the old one out.

Its a good program no doubt but if I would have known the customer service was going to ignore me like this I would have purchased EFI LIVE

The thing is, there is nothing wrong with the product. It functioned exactly how it was supposed to. While this product is user friendly enough for a beginner to start using, the subject of segment swaps and custom installations are higher level activities and are the responsibility of the end user to understand. They are above and beyond basic tuning techniques and maybe should have been a little better researched before committing the credits. There are only a handful of ECU's and OS that really allow functional segment swaps. HP Tuners provides the utility, but it is still up to the user to understand the feasibility of a swap like that. I don't see where a person can hold them responsible for his/her own lack of understanding or due diligence. Not trying to be a jerk here, but I just don't agree with the blame.

[hotrodneb]

Oh.....while I completely support your position, I would not agree with how your are handling it ^^^^^

It would likely serve your purpose better if you took your emotions out on a tall beer, then posted. Everyone in customer service wants to help the customer who appears to want to be helped.

[72vega383]

The thing is, there is nothing wrong with the product. It functioned exactly how it was supposed to. While this product is user friendly enough for a beginner to start using, the subject of segment swaps and custom installations are higher level activities and are the responsibility of the end user to understand. They are above and beyond basic tuning techniques and maybe should have been a little better researched before committing the credits. There are only a handful of ECU's and OS that really allow functional segment swaps. HP Tuners provides the utility, but it is still up to the user to understand the feasibility of a swap like that. I don't see where a person can hold them responsible for his/her own lack of understanding or due diligence. Not trying to be a jerk here, but I just don't agree with the blame.

I understand what your saying. Before doing anything I asked questions to support I told them the specific computer I had ( did not know the OS yet) but they told me that all I need to do is license the computer and then I can do a segment swap. They know there are OS out there that aren't supported so notify the user that there are certain OS that cannot be used. They let you understand that all PCM are supported for everything. Nowhere does it say that there are oddball PCMs to watch out for and support just told me license it because there is a huge tune repository and if you can't find it there we likely have one. I did exactly as I was told after looking the the repository I emailed support like I was told. Only for them to tell me it's an oddball and they can't find a tune for it. I don't see where I went wrong I can't see what kind of files hp tuners has access to. The issue here is the customer support is not there and users are not being well enough informed. It's a rare case that this happens supposedly, but it happened to me and now I lost two credits. HP tuners know this information why don't they let users know about it

[DSteck]

What ever happened to the customer doing their due diligence to make sure something would work? You can read a file out of the PCM and save it without licensing it. Perhaps the original poster should have done this and asked somebody, " hey, this is what I want to do, will it work with this file?". There are TONS of possible operating systems for a given part number of a controller.

Nobody wants responsibility. So let's say you didn't license it because you knew it wouldn't work. You'd still spend another hundred bucks buying another PCM with a compatible file. If you look at the big picture, ultimately you'll spend the same. Hell, chances are this is a 0411 which means you can't typically find them for under $100, so the cost of spending another $100 to license a file that's exactly what you want suddenly isn't so bad.

OP, post the file from your ECM. There's a slim chance that a new file can be flashed in by somebody with unlimited that wouldn't require you to license it again.

[72vega383]

I want to be helped but if I email support they tell me. There's nothing they can do and it's unfortunate that this happened. So I posted on the forum. I might not get me credits back but atleast this thread might help users from going through the same thing.

[Keith@HPTuners]

Email support with a link to this thread and we'll see what we can do.

Please note that we are the tool manufacturer. It's up to you to learn how to use it.

Also, You can change your PCM to a different OS with our software, cheaper than what the dealer will charge you. This again falls under learning how to use the tool.

Lastly, we have no way to audit, monitor, or undo anything in the license system. It's a one way ticket. This is why we have the huge flashing !!! Attention !!! "You do not have a license to perform the current action. Select the license you wish to activate from the list below. Be careful as this action cannot be undone. The credits used will no longer be available for future use. If you have any questions please read the help files and contact customer support BEFORE activating a license."

And then, yet another popup that says "Are you sure? This action cannot be undone Used/Licensed credits will not be refunded! --> if you are not sure, please contact [email protected] first <--"

Please understand that we cannot be responsible for what you license. Please make sure you are 100% certain when you do license your file/vehicle.

Not all features are supported on all controllers. Not all controllers are compatible with each other. This is physical limit we must work within, placed on us by the manufacturers of the controller hardware. Again, we're just the tool manufacturer.

[ElecTech]

Oh.....while I completely support your position, I would not agree with how your are handling it ^^^^^

It would likely serve your purpose better if you took your emotions out on a tall beer, then posted. Everyone in customer service wants to help the customer who appears to want to be helped.

Are you talking to me?

I'm not handling anything. I'm merely expressing an opinion and I assure you there is very little emotion involved. I just think the OP is being unreasonable and is frustrated by something he doesn't really understand so he's lashing out at HPT. I see it everyday in the performance automotive realm. I was simply trying to point out that it isn't so cut and dry as the software didn't tell me not to do it, I did it, and now it's their fault and they should make it right.

Carry on.

[72vega383]

if anyone can help I would appreciate it.

[72vega383]

Email support with a link to this thread and we'll see what we can do.

Please note that we are the tool manufacturer. It's up to you to learn how to use it.

Also, You can change your PCM to a different OS with our software, cheaper than what the dealer will charge you. This again falls under learning how to use the tool.

Lastly, we have no way to audit, monitor, or undo anything in the license system. It's a one way ticket. This is why we have the huge flashing !!! Attention !!! "You do not have a license to perform the current action. Select the license you wish to activate from the list below. Be careful as this action cannot be undone. The credits used will no longer be available for future use. If you have any questions please read the help files and contact customer support BEFORE activating a license."

And then, yet another popup that says "Are you sure? This action cannot be undone Used/Licensed credits will not be refunded! --> if you are not sure, please contact [email protected] first <--"

Please understand that we cannot be responsible for what you license. Please make sure you are 100% certain when you do license your file/vehicle.

Not all features are supported on all controllers. Not all controllers are compatible with each other. This is physical limit we must work within, placed on us by the manufacturers of the controller hardware. Again, we're just the tool manufacturer.

This information should be posted somewhere and made available to users that not all features are supported. customer support didn't mention any of this.

[72vega383]

"Not all features are supported on all controllers. Not all controllers are compatible with each other. This is physical limit we must work within, placed on us by the manufacturers of the controller hardware. Again, we're just the tool manufacturer. "

this information should be on the banner or when I asked support about the specifics they should have mentioned something like this.

[DSteck]

How many times are you going to say the same thing and post after yourself? You're making me not want to help you.