Well the Boss intake isn't going to make more power than stock....it is where it makes power and for how long that makes it beneficial in certain circumstances.Originally Posted by etm351
Well the Boss intake isn't going to make more power than stock....it is where it makes power and for how long that makes it beneficial in certain circumstances.
I guarantee with VCT dialed in and rpm breakpoints adjusted accordingly a boss intake manifold will make more power. It will shift the torque curve and VE. Drop some in the low and mid to pick up torque from 5500+ which will result in more hp.
More power than what? Where is your data?
Tell us.....how much improvement at the strip does the Boss intake offer over stock?
Mine made (according to the butt dyno) significantly more over 6500 and carries to the limiter 7700whatever. (This was with no vct changes from manifold to manifold yet, just a base tune to get it drivable)
Trapping alllllmost 118 (117.8 was my best the one day we were out)
It's in a 3.31 car though and it hangs out in the upper rpm for a good amount of time
Initially it felt like there was no middle power but vct and spark fixed that. It lags a tiny bit under like 3200.
While the middle range power might not increase, it certainly doesn't decrease but the engine breathes Deep up top and the boss manifold definitely helps.
So i vote it makes more. I realize that's not tons to go on, but without changing spark or vct it pulled harder just swapping manifolds.
Where is your data that it doesn't? And dont tell me this tuner did this or did that.
I do not have any data to validate my statement on the coyote engine. What I do know is that on previous engines I have tuned and I've seen this exact situation. Long runner intake manifolds vs shorter runners, the short lost a little low end and gained great top end. And until I see someone with a "correct" vct calibration or until I do it myself, I will believe the boss manifold will be an improvement. I have seen datalogs from vehicles that were tuned by "big name" tuners and I can tell right off the bat that vct was not dialed in correctly.
I'm not worried about the drag strip. I'm concerned about torque curves.
I have data from 3 different cars that I tuned that all used the stock intake and went to the Boss. The Boss and stock intake both make ~the same power. The difference is the Boss intake makes the same power from ~6,800 to 7,800. Because this is where most of the time is spent at the track, you will see ~.15 decrease in ET's. You will see many stories on the forums about how people run slower with the Boss intake vs. the stock and that is due to a number of things:
1. Don't have the proper supporting mods
2. Not shifting the car at the correct RPM
3. Not launching the car at the proper RPM
Because the Boss intake will make less TQ and power than the stock in the middle, they run slower, take it off, speak bad of the mod and continue to fail at the track in general.
^ i have to agree. a well tuned stock car will be very close if not more than the boss under 5k rpm. but with the boss past 6000 the power flattens versus stock takes a dive around 7100rpm
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So it sounds like what your saying is that its driver and supporting mod error, not so much of the Boss manifold being the issue. When you tuned these three cars, how did you tune VCT? Also, what were the support mods of these three cars? I thinking sticking a Boss manifold on a car that only has an intake and catback will be useless. A cat delete may help but I feel long tubes would be the way to go. The length of the long tube headers should help the midrange loss in torque from switching to the boss manifold.
Kris
I also agree with wbt - as far as building a street strip combo go sit in the stands at a nhra or ihra event watch stock elim. Run then go check them out. No magical parts just a good combination of efficiency
Look at the power of a complete boss engine compared to a plain gt engine. I don't want to say what they are because i am sure i would be off by a few. Then look at a chassis dyno or engine dyno of each one and compare, for all of the parts in the boss engine there isn't much more power that right there tells you that the boss intake can only be worth so much power maybe 5 or 20 horsepower at the crankshaft
In my opinion add a boss intake to a motor with stock cams and heads is only worth a few horsepower up at 6k-6700 rpms and it looses some down low maybe 10 or 24 depending on how it is tuned and what other mods it has. That graph however doesn't show that so i could be wrong. I have seen some cars at the track that ran good MPH compared to a stock intake but the et didn't seem to there with the MPH.
Nothing with the cams changed.
To be successful with a manual trans using the Boss intake:
1. Reinforced driveline able to withstand 6K+ RPM launches on a slick
2. Complete rear suspension upgrades
3. Aftermarket clutch
4. Good shifter
5. 3.73 or 3.90 rear gear
6. Shift the car at 7,600+ every shift
My 2011 with the above sans the axles. Guess what broke.
Not long after that I de-modded and traded for a 2012 Auto and never looked back.
To be successful with an auto trans using the Boss intake:
1. Converter
Again I will add there is ~.15 difference in ET vs. the stock intake with that being the only change. The reason why isn't due to more power, it is where the Boss intake makes and maintains peak power.
Hope that helps.
Last edited by wbt; 11-10-2015 at 04:55 PM.
You didn't do any vct changes with the boss manifold vs the stock gt manifold?
Man, I find it hard to believe that there was no power to be made tuning VCT with the Boss over the stock manifold. Even if it didn't make anymore power, the design and flow characteristics of the manifolds are different from one another. Resonance should definitely change and VE should change as well. Again, I don't have any valid proof of this, but just my experience.
BTW, I have been arguing countless hours trying to justify the boss manifold over the stock manifold and forgot which engine I was originally speaking in regards, the 2015 GT engine. The 2015 engine with its higher flowing heads, larger valves, and more aggressive camshafts would match better with the boss than the 11-14 GT would I'm sure.
Kris
with cam timing changes the boss manifold works great.
On a 2015 I bet it would work better than 11-14.
All that said; if I didn't get the boss manifold from a boss car that upgraded to CJ; I would have gone CJ myself.
Did you tune VCT on your car with the boss manifold?
Kris
My tuner did. He's on this forum maybe he will chime in. It's pretty aggressive.
For a 3.31 car with a boss manifold that "should be a terrible combo" the car pulls like a train. It seems to be choking on the exhaust up top a little bit (stock exhaust with drilled cats). I ran versus a similar parts/mods 3.73 car with a tune and stock manifold a few days ago an it was not even close, I let off early cause it was clear he wasn't gonna catch me lol.
I didn't say there wasn't more to be done with VCT using the Boss, I am saying I didn't change it. This would be one of the very few instances where a dyno would be needed to make those changes however I don't expect there to be any large gains over where it is/was. I didn't spent the time to mess with it.
I will also add that I ran the CJ setup on my car for quite some time comparing track data to the Boss. There were exactly 0 gains seen.
And this is where I chime in and say VCT tuning is crucial. No wonder you didn't see any power gains, you didn't change intake valve opening position and increase overlap for the increased flow and change in resonance of the new intake manifolds. I don't think you understand how important this is.
So for you to call me out in the first place on my accusation that the boss manifold does make power with VCT tuning, saying it doesn't, just further proves that the tuning and data collected on the boss and CJ setup swap, is invalid. I have unfortunately seen a lot of this... You really need to learn to utilize VCT. I completely tuned the VCT on my 2015 and found power in the VCT. I tuned a 2012 last week with just an intake and cat delete x pipe and found a good bit of power in advancing IVO position and increasing the amount of overlap almost everywhere from 1000-7200 rpm. The stock VCT is dialed in for a stock car. You can't install all of these mods that increase flow, efficiency, and completely change the resonance of the engine without changing VCT. I will be installing a boss manifold on this 2012 in the next couple of weeks. I will post my results of VCT before and after the boss install and horsepower change.
Kris
...time to un-wad your panties.
1. I am not using the stock cam timing....it is wrong for you to assume such as you have been doing in your responses in this thread.
2. I have comparison data using multiple intakes on multiple cars. I tuned the first 2013-2014 Mustang GT to run 10's N/A with the stock long block using a Boss intake. I am working with another that is running 11.1x's@125+.
3. It is a known fact that the Boss intake WILL make less TQ and HP in the middle of the RPM range vs. the stock intake.
4. As I previously stated, there is not a 15HP peak swing by simply bolting a Boss intake on and making cam timing changes. The secret sauce with both the Boss and CJ are where they make power.
5. I have used all 3 intakes on my car running sub 7 second 1/8th mile ET's on both e85 and 93.
Here is a dyno sheet on my 2011 comparing the stock to Boss intakes. Notice the stock intake numbers in the middle drop. That was due to TQ mgmt and exactly why I made the previous comments in this thread.
Your words:
I said provide the data. I have mine, let's see your's.
Last edited by wbt; 11-10-2015 at 11:32 AM.
Not to get off topic, all of this info is gold, what torque management change picked up power in the mid-range? The fact a torque management change consistently picked up power half way through a pull is baffling to me, can't think why something would be intervening at that point.
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