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Thread: Innovate LM-2 Analog Input Signal Noise - Erratic Signal

  1. #1
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    Innovate LM-2 Analog Input Signal Noise - Erratic Signal

    Car: 2010 CTS-V
    Stock blower, stock injectors

    Using HP Tuners Pro with the inputs on the left side

    Hooked up an Innovate LM2 - followed the directions on configuring the analog output in the innovate software
    Innovate being powered by cigarette lighter power adapter
    O2 sensor in tail pipe using innovate exhaust clamp
    wired and Configured the analog input #1 correctly in hp tuners. min 7.35 max 22.39, denominator 0.332, 7.35 on the right side
    Inserted into vcm scanner chart
    Displayed on chart view in vcm scanner.

    Now here is the problem.

    When i start a scan, the wideband analog input signal is extremely noisy. It flips from 10 to 19 several times per second and is unusable. I tried running an additional ground from the battery negative terminal twisted together with the signal ground from the innovate into the hp tuners. That didnt help.

    Is this something that has been seen before on this forum?

    i searched and saw almost the same question here: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...ideband+signal but no replies

  2. #2
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    Not sure if this will help as my experience is with the LC-2 instead of LM2, and mine was in the stock NBO2 bung, but I had to configure the output(s) to get a decent signal. I used the "LM400 programmer" to adjust the settings, so maybe it works for the LM2 as well? At any rate, I had to adjust the "response" in the advance tab to 1/12 to keep it within reason. It was still a little noisy, but not like the 10-19 swings you are seeing. I also found that "0.3324" and "7.20" nailed it for getting the HPT to match the Logworks software. BTW, assuming the LM2 has a serial interface, have you tried using the Logworks tool to compare what it sees to HPT? The best you can hope for is getting them to match.

  3. #3
    Tuner zl1killer's Avatar
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    you need to ground the MPVI interface and the wideband all together. I grounded everything back to the negative side of the Lm-2 (modified connector and soldered). everything was sooo much better afterwards.

    I ran a ground wire from the MPVI interface (its negative/ground wire) to the negative/ground on the lm-2 power port...as long as you grab a ground it should work
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  4. #4
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    Angry

    Quote Originally Posted by malangus View Post
    Car: 2010 CTS-V
    Stock blower, stock injectors

    Using HP Tuners Pro with the inputs on the left side

    Hooked up an Innovate LM2 - followed the directions on configuring the analog output in the innovate software
    Innovate being powered by cigarette lighter power adapter
    O2 sensor in tail pipe using innovate exhaust clamp
    wired and Configured the analog input #1 correctly in hp tuners. min 7.35 max 22.39, denominator 0.332, 7.35 on the right side
    Inserted into vcm scanner chart
    Displayed on chart view in vcm scanner.

    Now here is the problem.

    When i start a scan, the wideband analog input signal is extremely noisy. It flips from 10 to 19 several times per second and is unusable. I tried running an additional ground from the battery negative terminal twisted together with the signal ground from the innovate into the hp tuners. That didnt help.

    Is this something that has been seen before on this forum?

    i searched and saw almost the same question here: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...ideband+signal but no replies

    I have exact the same problem! I tried a lot of changings. My LM-2 wideband is verry noise. it flips also from 10 to 19 in short time.
    1. I can damping it, if I rise the filter up. (see pic) but then its very slow:
    2. Also with LM-1 function it shows the AFR to high, round 1,55 to much ( see pic)
    3. I lowered the function from 10 to 8,45. (see pic)
    4. If I measure the analog output from LM-2 it shows solid values but the scanner is extremly noise:
    5. I also install a wire from the PIN 5 on the MPVI pro to the zigaret connector from the LM-2 power input Ground. no changings!

    does anyone knows, what is wron here



    IMG_20151123_150456.jpgIMG_20151123_150151.jpgIMG_20151123_144712.jpgIMG_20151123_133307.jpgIMG_20151123_112603.jpg

  5. #5
    HP Tuners Owner Keith@HPTuners's Avatar
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    It's possible the LM-1 scalars are wrong in the VCM Scanner software. THe scanner shows you what it's using though so you can verify.
    It's possible that your LM-1's output has been changed.

    You can connect to it via a serial port if you like and won't have any ground offset issues at all.
    We got this guy Not Sure, ...

  6. #6
    Advanced Tuner Auto-Hentzschel's Avatar
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    How to connect the serial port?

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner Auto-Hentzschel's Avatar
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    @Keith
    I use my LM-2 with serial input. I found out, the output is 500 Beats for 14,7 AFR. I corrected the function to (input / 34,01360544217687) + 0. [500/14,7= 34,01360544217687]
    it works how it seems. but if the AFR goes more to rich or lean, it seems to show not correct the values. Example the LM-2 Monitor show 14,7 Scanner show 14,7. Perfect
    But if the LM-2 Monitor shows 11, the Scanner shows 8??? is there a mistake in my function?
    I found the innovate serial output description, but I dont understand. maybe you can find the right adjustments.
    Seriallog-2.pdf

  8. #8
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    The best I found with the lm2 was to change (it's) outputs via (it's) setup software. Only way I could get it remotely close. Make 10 the richest and 20 the leanest it will output on (it's) analog outputs... Problem = obviously it won't show in the scanner the richest or leanest it's supposed to. Still not 100% accurate, but gets withen .2 or .3 most of the time. Also still will have ground offset problems - just part of (it's) built in hardware and software issues...

    NOW personally I'm through with innovate. Heard a lot of bad things after having to replace my sensors after only a few months of use... Innovate just had excuse after excuse for this... Not wanting to start anything here, so I'll leave it at that...

    SO Keith? What wideband system would you recommend to work the best not only with 2.24's scanner, but with the newer 2.25 scanner? I have been strongly considering a lambda Pro, but no serial output for the 2.25's scanner? Then ecm's 5200's are $5000+... Really like the reputation plus they make them for OE grade labs. BUT is there one you would recommend that's not only cheaper, but easier to use and works with both scanners without any noticed ground offset issues? Heard nearly everyone using the lambda pro likes it and typically doesn't have to do anything for ground offset problems. I really like the idea of not having to redo the scanner everytime I go to use it
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  9. #9
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    I've been happy with my PLX.. but I know you need a little higher end one than me. I haven't tried the serial output yet on the PLX but am planning on trying it soon

    I had all kinds of problems with my Innovate Motorsports MTX-L. Never again. Went through 3 sensors in 3 months, had to recalibrate once a week and it still error'd out all the time. Put PLX 4.9 in the exact same bung and literally haven't touched it in 6 months. Not a single error and has consistent readings as best I can tell.

    Would be interesting to see how it compares to one of the high end meters
    Last edited by schpenxel; 12-21-2015 at 08:27 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
    I've been happy with my PLX.. but I know you need a little higher end one than me. I haven't tried the serial output yet on the PLX but am planning on trying it soon

    I had all kinds of problems with my Innovate Motorsports MTX-L. Never again. Went through 3 sensors in 3 months, had to recalibrate once a week and it still error'd out all the time. Put PLX 4.9 in the exact same bung and literally haven't touched it in 6 months. Not a single error and has consistent readings as best I can tell.

    Would be interesting to see how it compares to one of the high end meters
    I recently purchased a PLX Tuner Edition and it is far and away better than my old LC1 was. It seems much more stable and has more options with the display. I think it's a good choice for the money, but certainly not lab grade. I also considered the Daytona Sensors WB, but the PLX display changed my mind. I was surprised at how light the unit was and it "seems" fragile, but time will tell.
    Jaime

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner Auto-Hentzschel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
    I've been happy with my PLX.. but I know you need a little higher end one than me. I haven't tried the serial output yet on the PLX but am planning on trying it soon

    I had all kinds of problems with my Innovate Motorsports MTX-L. Never again. Went through 3 sensors in 3 months, had to recalibrate once a week and it still error'd out all the time. Put PLX 4.9 in the exact same bung and literally haven't touched it in 6 months. Not a single error and has consistent readings as best I can tell.

    Would be interesting to see how it compares to one of the high end meters
    In fact, I'll burn my innovate. every output send shit to the tirth party device. analog and the serial also.
    I'll buy a new one. I'll choose between PLX or Zeitronix. who can give me his recommendation?

    http://www.plxdevices.com/Wideband-O...7346002726.htm

    http://www.zeitronix.com/Products/Zt-3/Zt-3.shtml

  12. #12
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    I can only say the PLX one has worked well for me...

  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner Auto-Hentzschel's Avatar
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    ...now its done, I bought the Zeitronix Zt-3. I cound't see longer the Innovate WB. Whatever I do, all outputs comes unusable, serial and also the analog one.
    today tested shortly the Zt-3 with analog input to the scanner and it shows the same like in the scanner and ZT software... Happy!

    Maybe a small request to Keith at HP Tuners, to add the serial input for the Zt-3! thanks

  14. #14
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    Post in the 2.25 thread with the details on that WB and he might add it.. (if you haven't already)

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    old post i know, new to the forum and the hp tuners world. i am having almost the same issue, and wondering has any one figured out a solution yet? i have been searching for about a week on here and the internet and still have not been able to get my innovate lm2 to read correctly in v3.0 scanner. lm2 display appears to be reading correctly . i have tried just about any and everything that i have read, extra grounds, re-configuring lm2 and hp tuners still the same issue. wide band in scanner swings from low to high constantly while lm2 stays steady with maybe .3v swing up and down very slowly. using cigarette lighter for power, lm2 analog out 1 + to vcm pro terminal 1 analog 1- to pin 5, lm2 analog out 2+ to vcm pro pin 2 analog 2- to pin 6, extra ground going from vcm pin 5 and 6 to battery ground. configured lm2 analog out 1 0v=10 5v=20 afr, analog out 2 0v=10 1v=20afr. played with 1/12th 1/6th and 1/3rd timing in lm2 same results. adjusted the filter in scanner graph every wich way and it just seems to make it stuck with no swings while the channel portion is still swinging back and forth. almost at my wits end with this. any and all help would be greatly appreciated, thank you guys. (included scanner log)
    Last edited by 77coupe; 06-14-2016 at 09:22 PM.

  16. #16
    Advanced Tuner Auto-Hentzschel's Avatar
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    You have to say goodbey to your innovate WB. These sensors was the biggest shit what I ever bought. It show me the right values on the display, but never it gives a correct output for tird party devices. Not analog, not serial!
    I bought a Zeitronix ZT-3 and never again got any problems!
    The only one, you never should install the sensor downsite. Alway from uppersite. Because the water goes in the sensor and destroy it. Inovate exhause clamp can't install your sensor from upper site. It destroy your sensor. DSC00060.jpgI build my own exhaust clamp. Since this time it works perfect.IMG_20160615_074921.jpg

  17. #17
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    I always had issues with my Innovate WB also though I still am not sure if this is a setup issue or hardware issue

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner Auto-Hentzschel's Avatar
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    the problem is the signal output! its very nervios. unusable for tird party software

  19. #19
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    that was my next option. was trying to give the lm2 a shot especially with how expensive they are. from what i can tell it works perfect with my carbureted car, lol. and yes auto-hentzschel i have the sensor clocked correctly. very interesting dyno you have there. thank you for your input guys

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77coupe View Post
    old post i know, new to the forum and the hp tuners world. i am having almost the same issue, and wondering has any one figured out a solution yet? i have been searching for about a week on here and the internet and still have not been able to get my innovate lm2 to read correctly in v3.0 scanner. lm2 display appears to be reading correctly . i have tried just about any and everything that i have read, extra grounds, re-configuring lm2 and hp tuners still the same issue. wide band in scanner swings from low to high constantly while lm2 stays steady with maybe .3v swing up and down very slowly. using cigarette lighter for power, lm2 analog out 1 + to vcm pro terminal 1 analog 1- to pin 5, lm2 analog out 2+ to vcm pro pin 2 analog 2- to pin 6, extra ground going from vcm pin 5 and 6 to battery ground. configured lm2 analog out 1 0v=10 5v=20 afr, analog out 2 0v=10 1v=20afr. played with 1/12th 1/6th and 1/3rd timing in lm2 same results. adjusted the filter in scanner graph every wich way and it just seems to make it stuck with no swings while the channel portion is still swinging back and forth. almost at my wits end with this. any and all help would be greatly appreciated, thank you guys. (included scanner log)
    I never had a prob with previous versions of hpt scanner with lm2. its seems to have a lot of issues with hpt ver3 that no one can figure out.