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Thread: scaling ve table for cai without wideband?

  1. #1
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    scaling ve table for cai without wideband?

    is there anyway I can scale the ve and maf tables safely without wideband? how much would be safe to add if it is possible unless you cant do it without wideband at all?

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    If all you did was just add a intake and nothing else, you really don't have to do anything else with the tune. I mean you always can but I don't feel that you'll gain much from it at all.

    And me personally, I wouldnt do it without a wideband as they are so much more accurate than trying to do it with fuel trims.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner AutoWiz's Avatar
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    You could disable pe, disable decel fuel cut, disable cot protection so nothing interferes with ltft data, and force the ecu to only use maf by setting high rpm disable to a very low number. write to your ecu, then in vcm scanner setup histogram #8 for maf based off of ltft data. and this will let you collect data you can copy and paste special multiplying by % or 1/2 if you get close. and you just keep driving and logging data and filling histogram until all cells start reporting back numbers less than 2. then turn back on your decel fuel cut, pe, cot protection, and reset high rpm disable back to 4,000rpm and enjoy your smooth running car. but you'd still need a wideband for wot tuning when commanded afr is below what o2 sensor can see. so you could plot your histogram to wideband afr error% instead of ltft

  4. #4
    Tuner POWERZONE's Avatar
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    Yes for part throttle tuning sub-4000rpm. Its done all the time.

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  5. #5
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AutoWiz View Post
    You could disable pe, disable decel fuel cut, disable cot protection so nothing interferes with ltft data, and force the ecu to only use maf by setting high rpm disable to a very low number. write to your ecu, then in vcm scanner setup histogram #8 for maf based off of ltft data. and this will let you collect data you can copy and paste special multiplying by % or 1/2 if you get close. and you just keep driving and logging data and filling histogram until all cells start reporting back numbers less than 2. then turn back on your decel fuel cut, pe, cot protection, and reset high rpm disable back to 4,000rpm and enjoy your smooth running car. but you'd still need a wideband for wot tuning when commanded afr is below what o2 sensor can see. so you could plot your histogram to wideband afr error% instead of ltft
    I keep seeing people want to disable PE during tuning...why? PE adder is a fixed value and the MAF/VE values you are tuning are the variables. Your Lambda/AFR error values are based on %difference from actual to commanded lanbda/afr so you will see the true error correction value regardless if PE is enabled or not....the oinly thing that can happen with a disabled PE is accidental journeys into overly lean conditions.

    It is correct, you can not tune wot without a WB....You could at least develop a predicted MAF curve by using the closed loop results, and applying your results to Dave Stecks MAF smoothing tool (Google or Forum search). It will show you the trend and you can adjust the higher MAF values to fall on the smoothing curve...then add 5% for safety. Its a starting point at least. Wouldn't recommend for VE (or boosted setups) as it is much more complicated so you would want to set the High RPM Disable to 400/390.

    VE trend predictions can be developed by plotting the VE values in a particular RPM axis as you go up in load (MAP). There is a linear relationship in the VE at an RPM as load is increased. Plot that closed loop data and develop delta trends and you can fill in the missing VE table as well. I posted a tool some years ago I use for that...Google search that as well.

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 09-20-2015 at 07:18 AM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  6. #6
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    sweet usually I just get 100 views atleast I know I can get it close with these methods. When I bought I thought I could always just buy the wideband for the extra $250 but then I realized on my it has no where to plug it in now..sucks but ill be getting exhaust here soon on it and I continually add things and make changes here and there but thanks for the setup now I just need to find the time and make logs to and from work. appreciate the imput and thanks

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chevypower101 View Post
    sweet usually I just get 100 views atleast I know I can get it close with these methods. When I bought I thought I could always just buy the wideband for the extra $250 but then I realized on my it has no where to plug it in now..sucks but ill be getting exhaust here soon on it and I continually add things and make changes here and there but thanks for the setup now I just need to find the time and make logs to and from work. appreciate the imput and thanks
    You can set the tune up into open loop and replace one of the primary O2's with your wideband O2 sensor, get it tuned, then re-install the narrowband and go back to closed loop....

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
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    http://www.ermperformancetuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/ERMPerformanceTuning

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