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Thread: Logging Wideband with no EIO interface using EGR :O)

  1. #21
    I know that a resistor would have no effect on the voltage range. But the voltage range in mode P2 is from 1-2V so adding a resistor i could drop the signal by 1V and the range would not change it would just now be from 0-1V.

    Or the other option is to find the AC pressure wire. Where on the AC system would i find the wire? Does it lead to the actual AC pump?

  2. #22
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    I'm saying that the resistor would drop the voltage; It would just decrease the current.

    The A/C pressure sensor is on the high side pressure hose from the compressor to the evaporater.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
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  3. #23
    well i found the wire for the AC pressure sensor. is there any codes i need to disable so that my AC system is not damaged from using the pressure sensor wire for logging my wideband?? as long as i keep the AC off everything should be good right?

  4. #24
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    You need to wire in a toggle switch in so when you are logging you turn the AC off and flip the toggle to send the WB output to the PCM and when not logging the toggle switch sends the AC pressure to the PCM.

    If I recall correctly the only thing the AC pressure sensor is used for is to turn off the compressor if the high side pressure gets too high. It's best to have it stil report to the PCM when not logging.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
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  5. #25
    Advanced Tuner jakebdb56's Avatar
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    this is pretty interesting. I'm looking at doing this to my truck with an lm-1/lc-1 wb. is it pretty reliable to use the bank 2 sensor? I really wanna start tuning with a wb, but I don't have the extra dough for HPT pro. thanks for the help. and 5litereater if you wanna just come over to my house and hook it up for me that'd be nice lol, cmon ur in houston too

    thanks for the help
    '20 AT4
    '01 Suburban 2500 Dad Wagon

  6. #26
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Yea it's pretty neat I think. Got mine working last weekend and have been logging data in open loop using the custom PIDs and histograms for %AFR Error. I don't see why using the bank 2 O2 would be any less reliable. You would be scrunching the WB signal into a 1V range but I don't see a problem with that. I would suggest the Innovative controllers for that because the AEM doesn't seem to be able to be set to 0-1V output.

    I wouldn't mind helping you with the PIDs and histograms but I don't envy hooking up the Lx-1's. There seems to be a lot of discrepancy about where to ground what, etc. AEM installation is easy peasy. You would just need to use a 5V sensor to log through (EGR or AC).
    Last edited by 5_Liter_Eater; 10-19-2006 at 08:22 AM.
    Bill Winters

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  7. #27
    Advanced Tuner jakebdb56's Avatar
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    only thing about my truck is it doesn't have EGR, unless it's still in the wiring harness? my truck is a 06 with the LM7 so it didn't come with EGR, as for the a/c deal I don't really wanna mess with it at all, i'd rather pay the upgrade cost to goto pro instead of messing with that. as for the AEM, i've heard they're good, but I noticed that allen from nelson performance just started using a FAST afr monitor, Im tryin to figure out from him if it can be adjustable, if so i'd rather use it than the innovative b/c the FAST is cheaper and I personally like FAST products. i've got the PID/histogram stuff down, im a freakin nerd (former Geek Squad employee haha).thanks for the help and info
    jake
    '20 AT4
    '01 Suburban 2500 Dad Wagon

  8. #28
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    The vette doesn't have an EGR either. Thats why I went with the A/C. Depending on what controller you get you could use the rear O2 input as well. If you don't want to mess with it then EIO/Pro is not that expensive.

    I can't say I've heard of many people running the FAST sensor, actually I only recently found out they made one. There are not near as many AEMs as Innovatives either but I love mine.

    Good luck.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
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  9. #29
    Tuner in Training M88ArRamadi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennyspec
    well i found the wire for the AC pressure sensor. is there any codes i need to disable so that my AC system is not damaged from using the pressure sensor wire for logging my wideband?? as long as i keep the AC off everything should be good right?
    Which color wire did you use?

  10. #30
    Senior Tuner Frost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater
    I'm saying that the resistor would drop the voltage; It would just decrease the current.

    The A/C pressure sensor is on the high side pressure hose from the compressor to the evaporater.

    The resistor could jump from signal to ground though; a voltage divider model. Surely that's what he meant. The PCMs input impedance should be constant. You can figure that out by using a reference voltage and measuring current. A same-value resistor to ground should halve the voltage to the PCM's input.
    Steve Williams
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater
    The vette doesn't have an EGR either. Thats why I went with the A/C. Depending on what controller you get you could use the rear O2 input as well. If you don't want to mess with it then EIO/Pro is not that expensive.

    I can't say I've heard of many people running the FAST sensor, actually I only recently found out they made one. There are not near as many AEMs as Innovatives either but I love mine.

    Good luck.
    Would you mind elaborating on which ac wire you tapped into and how to setup some pid's and histograms to use it the way you did? I have a vette as well so I don't egr either and I too have the aem wideband like yourself. Thanks, Zo6hunter

  12. #32
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    C5 or C6? The only difference would be the AC pressure wire. Everything else is the same. Here's a thread about when I first did it on my C5.

    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1505061

    The A/C pressure sensor wire on the C6 is pin 26 on the blue (C1) connector (on an '05). It's orange with a black stripe.

    Shoot me an e-mail and I'll send you some more detailed PID/histogram info.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater
    C5 or C6? The only difference would be the AC pressure wire. Everything else is the same. Here's a thread about when I first did it on my C5.

    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1505061

    The A/C pressure sensor wire on the C6 is pin 26 on the blue (C1) connector (on an '05). It's orange with a black stripe.

    Shoot me an e-mail and I'll send you some more detailed PID/histogram info.
    its an 02 c5 z06 btw. I will shoot you an email here in a sec. Thanks for the help!

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater View Post
    C5 or C6? The only difference would be the AC pressure wire. Everything else is the same. Here's a thread about when I first did it on my C5.

    http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1505061

    The A/C pressure sensor wire on the C6 is pin 26 on the blue (C1) connector (on an '05). It's orange with a black stripe.

    Shoot me an e-mail and I'll send you some more detailed PID/histogram info.


    I would like to log a wide band to be-able to tune my truck 06 SSR E40 PCM M6 manual. I believe that my LS2 E40 computer is very similar to yours, do you think I could use your PID/histogram .cfg files??

    I don't have a/c so I can easily leave it wired into the a/c pressure line. Do I need to wide band o2 sensors..one for each bank? Or do I just use one in either bank 1 or bank 2? I have a extra O2 bung welded on bank 1, it is almost right below is that to close to the factory one? Or do you usually remove the stock O2 sensors and install the wide band there, since you are running in closed loop while logging anyway?

    What is the best wide-band to use, and what gauge are you talking about that you are referencing the accuracy too?

    Thanks... any help is appreciated! -Jamie I would really like to avoid paying the extra cost for MPVI pro, and I don't mind logging on my laptop, as I can see what is going on right away!

  15. #35
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 04colyZQ8 View Post
    I would like to log a wide band to be-able to tune my truck 06 SSR E40 PCM M6 manual. I believe that my LS2 E40 computer is very similar to yours, do you think I could use your PID/histogram .cfg files??
    Yes I would imagine they would work but your equation may differ based on what wide band you have and how it is configured.

    I don't have a/c so I can easily leave it wired into the a/c pressure line. Do I need to wide band o2 sensors..one for each bank? Or do I just use one in either bank 1 or bank 2? I have a extra O2 bung welded on bank 1, it is almost right below is that to close to the factory one? Or do you usually remove the stock O2 sensors and install the wide band there, since you are running in closed loop while logging anyway?
    It's best to leave the stock narrow bands (primaries and secondaries) in place and weld a bung for your wide band into one exhaust pipe (On LS motors #7 is known to run the leanest/hottest so we use bank 1)anywhere ahead of the cats. I run un closed loop most of the time so I need at least the primary narrow band O2's. The secondaries can be tuned out and removed if you don't have cats. If you do there is no benefit to yanking them.
    What is the best wide-band to use, and what gauge are you talking about that you are referencing the accuracy too?
    I use the AEM UEGO. The best one going right now is the NGK AFX.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater View Post
    Yes I would imagine they would work but your equation may differ based on what wide band you have and how it is configured.

    It's best to leave the stock narrow bands (primaries and secondaries) in place and weld a bung for your wide band into one exhaust pipe (On LS motors #7 is known to run the leanest/hottest so we use bank 1)anywhere ahead of the cats. I run un closed loop most of the time so I need at least the primary narrow band O2's. The secondaries can be tuned out and removed if you don't have cats. If you do there is no benefit to yanking them.
    I use the AEM UEGO. The best one going right now is the NGK AFX.
    Thanks for all your help.. you are really knowledgeable on this subject!


    I believe bank 1 is the driver-side, I welded a bung on the side of the header, and there already was one on the bottom, I did this for better ground clearance, but I could always put it there for tuning purposes, and watch speed bumps! Is that to close to each-other? I put two stock narrow band senors, in there to give you idea, of what it will look like?

    Is -9.4% long term trims on idle normal?? This means is is running to lean right? This is the reason I want to get a wide-band, so I can better see what is going on, and do some tunning.

  17. #37
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    You don't want any sensor's on the direct bottom due to moisture in the exhaust shorting the sensor out. You'll potentially kill alot of sensors with it stuck directly in the bottom of the pipe. I alway's try to keep them at least above the 4oclock and 8oclock positions.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    You don't want any sensor's on the direct bottom due to moisture in the exhaust shorting the sensor out. You'll potentially kill alot of sensors with it stuck directly in the bottom of the pipe. I alway's try to keep them at least above the 4oclock and 8oclock positions.

    mmm good point! I added the one on the side, the bottom one was always there?? 2006 OBX trailblazer SS header. I am sure it would be fine for a temporary basis, provided that the readings don't get skewed from have the sensors that close together???

    I don't know where else I could mount it, they are long tubes with the cats right after the collectors, I only can mount the O2 sensor in the collector, we are talking about 2" of length in a tight spot!!!

  19. #39
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    There is no problem putting sensors close together but as James mentioned you don't want sensors below 4 or 10'o'clock. You could put it just to the right of the other sensor, further up the collector.
    Bill Winters

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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5_Liter_Eater View Post
    There is no problem putting sensors close together but as James mentioned you don't want sensors below 4 or 10'o'clock. You could put it just to the right of the other sensor, further up the collector.
    Ok thanks, What if I put the stock narrow band in the bottom position and the wide band on the side?