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Thread: PE activates = knocks all over the place!!!

  1. #1
    Tuner Stuffs's Avatar
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    PE activates = knocks all over the place!!!

    well this is a 98 car with its 98 PCM

    converted to 2 Bar SD OS with the 12615136 2bar ac delco map
    ls1 with a centrifugal supercharger @ +/- 6 psi watercooled
    60# siemens deka injectors (stock fuel system @58 psi)
    bolt ons

    problems is , car was ready to start tuning it via wideband, but even with light throttle as soon as it enters PE (commanded to 12.5 for tuning purposes) and under boost 11.5 for safety, shows full knocks all over the place, not just in some areas but in all areas that PE is active.

    i know VE is wacky but as stated above , this was the first drive to start the tuning process.

    any advice is appreciated
    Last edited by Stuffs; 09-25-2015 at 11:54 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    can i ask why you set pe to 12.5 in boost?
    11.3 to 11.5 is the normal zone for long lasting use under boost. I think your detonation is mostly due to the lean condition running the cylinder too hot.
    12.3 - 12.5 is pe afr for n/a operation.

    as a factory example for boosted afr, the zr1 runs stock at its leanest 11.3 and at the richest 10.5
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  3. #3
    Tuner Stuffs's Avatar
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    did you actually open the HPT file?, you will see that im commanding 12.5 PE and 11.5 BE...

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    i did. and i did not see your BE settings so thanks for straightening me out. i asked because im still trying to get myself straight on this OS upgrade. thank you for teaching me something.
    my lean note was because i saw the afr was lean right at the start of pe enrichment. i posted because i saw a chance to learn something, sorry if i upset you.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  5. #5
    Tuner Stuffs's Avatar
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    Not upset at all sorry if i sounded rude too. And yes ,its lean on the transition , maybe injector / transient data related, I dunno yet...

  6. #6
    Tuner POWERZONE's Avatar
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    Look at your BE MAP setting. You are not set to hit BE until at least 105KPA. If you look at all the times you are jabbing the throttle and its knocking, your AFR commanded % is only 12.53 which is what you are commanding in your PE table. You are requesting 11.5 in your BE table but the criteria you set it up for is not being met so the PCM will default and choose a table where the criteria is closely matching. The PCM is selecting the PE table because certain conditions are being met such as you are above 70KPA, TPS is above 5%, and your MAP KPA has not reached above 105KPA(Boost Enrichment table).

    It is best to pick one or the other and since you are 2bar, I would suggest using the BE table.

    Now go look at frame 2557-2854, now your AFR commanded % changed to reflect the BE table 11.5. The number one difference is your MAP KPA was 107KPA which is over the 105KPA you selected as a requirement to activate BE.

    To make a long story short, you may need to read some more before you blow it up. Take baby steps.

    If you are gonna use Boost Enrichment for enrichment, go ahead and set the entire PE table to one setting that is leaner than your Boost enrichment table. Right now you have your PE at 12.5 then at 6400rpm it goes to 11.3. Don't do that.

    At this stage, no need for 11.5 and 11.3 in your BE table, just set the entire table to 11.3 and work your way up. Until you get a good grasp of what is going on, then you can move on to power tuning.

    Set your entire Boost Enrichment to whatever AFR you are desiring, start very conservative and work your way up. Set your MAP KPA based on when your boost comes on.
    Last edited by POWERZONE; 09-17-2015 at 04:52 AM.
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  7. #7
    Tuner Stuffs's Avatar
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    thanks, i wasnt even want to get into boost, if you look at those throttle jabbing its barely 15-30%tps , dont wanted to BE to come into play. cutoff is at 6,300 so PE 11.3 was never a target...

    take a look at frame 2221 %tps still in olfa table 14.68 and 59kpa MAP (PE criteria not met) 1,508 rpm.... then frame 2222 same 16%tps but 72kpa MAP (PE on) 1,532rpm ..POW! full knock,can you explain me why that happens

    thanks

  8. #8
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    how is the exhaust and cam on this car, what are the cam specs and headers, cats mufflers, could be a false knock or other issue

  9. #9
    Tuner Stuffs's Avatar
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    its a blower cam with 116 lsa... no rumperty rump idle, longtubes into a lm1, no cats. engine on poly mounts.

    weird thing is ... before the deka 60s this car had some 42s , i have lots of logs and i personally drove this car without those knock issues.

  10. #10
    Tuner POWERZONE's Avatar
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    You say you did not want BE to come into play but PE is active. I already explained why.
    The criteria for enrichment is set at 15% TPS between 1200-1600rpm and 70 KPA.

    The KR is occuring when you are putting a load on the motor plus even though you are entering PE, your fueling(AFR error %) is not even close most of the time to the AFR commanded, its leaner.

    That VE table needs work as well as the spark advance.

    At a rough glance, I would say most of your issue is timing and fuel related.

    What Fuel pressure regulator are you using?
    Last edited by POWERZONE; 09-16-2015 at 06:37 AM.
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  11. #11
    Tuner Stuffs's Avatar
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    thanks, definitely yes i wanted to get into PE and I agree ve and spark needs a lot of attention since this was the first drive to start tuning it , that why is so hacked up. its stock 98 fuel system with just a plug n play racetronix fuel pump. do you suggest to keep doing the afr % error work with those values? is my inj data ok? can you help me with a base timing map or something? thanks again

  12. #12
    Tuner POWERZONE's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuffs View Post
    thanks, definitely yes i wanted to get into PE and I agree ve and spark needs a lot of attention since this was the first drive to start tuning it , that why is so hacked up. its stock 98 fuel system with just a plug n play racetronix fuel pump. do you suggest to keep doing the afr % error work with those values? is my inj data ok? can you help me with a base timing map or something? thanks again
    Are you using a boost reference fuel pressure regulator? Example maybe aeromotive or regulator near or on the fuel rail?
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  13. #13
    Tuner Stuffs's Avatar
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    no , just the returnless stock fpr of the 98 f car and the racetronix unit its a 255 IIRC
    Last edited by Stuffs; 09-16-2015 at 11:05 AM.

  14. #14
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    or maybe scan whatever you need