LE5 Turbo build questions

[Robotech]

I believe the 2007 Redlines came with a 2.5 bar but later years came with a 2.7. At least that's what I'm hearing (I'm a 2.4...we only got the 1 bar). I know it is more than a 2 bar as the stock boost readout can read up to 23 psi...well over what a 2 bar would read.

With the LNF in the Redline, there are two MAP sensors. 12592017 is one but 12592016 is the other. Different designs so it depends on which one you need, and, of course, different plugs. 17 goes in the hot pipe, 16 is in the manifold.

Or you can just go with this option:

http://www.performanceautowerks.com/...oducts_id=1712

Gives you a 3 bar MAP and the pigtail for it. $100.

[patooyee]

Yet another part number supposedly:

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...l=1#post234967

At least this one has a pigtail part number. Do you have any for either of those sensors you posted?

[patooyee]

12592016 is the other.

This one is not a tmap sensor, it only has 3 pins. If it is a 2.5-bar would you then just use a separate IAT?

[Robotech]

So many damn numbers.

12592016 is used just for MAP reading. 12592017 is your intake temp reading and a MAP reference. I'm not sure if the LNF in the Sky uses 12592017 as a MAP reference too. I want to say it only uses it for air temp in the cold pipe after the IC.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

Factory lnf is map only. The 3 bar has it in it but it's not wired in

[patooyee]

I'm gathering info about the various part numbers. This is just as much for my own future reference as it is for general info. Here is what I've found so far:

-GM 12592016 = ACD 213-3843 = Airtex Wells 5S8027
*2.5-bar - unconfirmed other than internet lore
*Used on 07+ LNF engines
*MAP only, 3-pins
*Pigtail???



-GM 12592017 = ACD 213-3847 = Airtex Wells 5S8059
*2.5-bar - unconfirmed other than internet lore
*ALSO used on LNF turbo engines
*TMAP, 4-pins
*Pigtail???


^^^I think LNF's used both of these for some reason. One for temp, the other for MAP, even though one of them does both? If you try to look up the second on on any parts resource it doesn't pull up under MAP, it pulls up under IAT. The reverse is true of the first one.

-GM 90423637 = ACD 213-3907 = Airtex Wells 5S6754
*2.5-bar - unconfirmed other than internet lore
*used on LSJ engines
*TMAP, 4-pins
*pigtail GM#88988320, ACD#PT1863, pigtail is more expensive than the sensor itself!

[patooyee]

I'm gathering info about the various part numbers. This is just as much for my own future reference as it is for general info. Here is what I've found so far:

-GM 12592016 = ACD 213-3843 = Airtex Wells 5S8027
*2.5-bar - unconfirmed other than internet lore
*Used on 07+ LNF engines
*MAP only, 3-pins
*Pigtail???

-GM 12592017 = ACD 213-3847 = Airtex Wells 5S8059
*2.5-bar - unconfirmed other than internet lore
*ALSO used on LNF turbo engines
*TMAP, 4-pins
*Pigtail???

^^^I think LNF's used both of these for some reason. One for temp, the other for MAP, even though one of them does both? If you try to look up the second on on any parts resource it doesn't pull up under MAP, it pulls up under IAT. The reverse is true of the first one.

OK yes, the first one, the MAP-only sensor is on the intake manifold. The second one, the TMAP, is on the intake tube. I'm not familiar enough with LNF's to say whether it is on the charge side or not.

[patooyee]

This is the cheapest source that I've found for pigtail 88988320 so far:

http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/pro...oducts_id/1626

If you click on associated mating parts they have very reasonable prices on Bosch TMAP sensors in 1, 2, 2.5, 3, 3.5, and 4-bar variety along with precise sensor data for each.

[patooyee]

I'm gathering info about the various part numbers. This is just as much for my own future reference as it is for general info. Here is what I've found so far:

-GM 12592016 = ACD 213-3843 = Airtex Wells 5S8027
*2.5-bar - unconfirmed other than internet lore
*Used on 07+ LNF engines
*MAP only, 3-pins
*Pigtail???

-GM 12592017 = ACD 213-3847 = Airtex Wells 5S8059
*2.5-bar - unconfirmed other than internet lore
*ALSO used on LNF turbo engines
*TMAP, 4-pins
*Pigtail???

^^^I think LNF's used both of these for some reason. One for temp, the other for MAP, even though one of them does both? If you try to look up the second on on any parts resource it doesn't pull up under MAP, it pulls up under IAT. The reverse is true of the first one.

-GM 90423637 = ACD 213-3907 = Airtex Wells 5S6754
*2.5-bar - unconfirmed other than internet lore
*used on LSJ engines
*TMAP, 4-pins
*pigtail GM#88988320, ACD#PT1863, pigtail is more expensive than the sensor itself! I think this might also fit the above 4-pin sensor?

OK, here's what's going on. The earlier LSJ sensor is a Bosch sensor. Then they switched to a new supplier or started making their own, not sure which. That's why the change in part numbering styles. I'm adding pics of the sensors to my original post.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

The LNF upgrade is: 55206797 3 Bar MAP Sensor
4 Pin Sensor (Map/IAT) [*Its replaces both locations on LNF/LDK Upgrades]
Tuning Data - Linear: 65.89 and Off-set: -6.35

The LNF Factory Sensor 1: 12592016 2.5 Bar Map Sensor
3 Pin Sensor (Map Only)
Tuning Data - Linear: 55.68 and Off-Set: -1.70

The LNF Factory Sensor 2: 12592017 2.5 Bar Map Sensor
4 Pin Map Sensor (Map/IAT)
Tuning Data - Linear: 55.68 and Off-Set: -1.70

The factory LS9 sensor is: 12592525 3 Bar MAP Sensor
4 Pin Sensor (Map/IAT)
Tuning Data - Linear: 312.50 and Off-Set: -11.25

The LSJ Factory Sensor: 0261230042 2.5 Bar Map Sensor
4 Pin Sensor (Map/IAT)
Tuning Data - Linear: 270.59 and Off-Set: -3.30



* Edit factory data and all connectors added in

[cobaltssoverbooster]

and the last one...

Factory Sensor: 12615136 2 Bar Map Sensor
3 Pin Sensor (Map Only)
Tuning Data - Linear: 187.492 and Off-Set: 12.508
LSJ Data- Linear: 270.59 Off-Set: -3.30




Keep in mind there are many more sensors that can be used in a map sensor location. as long as you have the calibration data or the linear plot from the manufacture you will be ok.
Shoot i've used oil pressure and high pressure fuel sensors for reading boost on rotaries and drag ecotecs. although they were not desirable to run they did work for the time they were used.

[patooyee]

and the last one...

The LE5 Factory Sensor: 12615136 2 Bar Map Sensor
3 Pin Sensor (Map Only)
Tuning Data - Linear: 128.13 and Off-Set: -0.31




Keep in mind there are many more sensors that can be used in a map sensor location. as long as you have the calibration data or the linear plot from the manufacture you will be ok.
Shoot i've used oil pressure and high pressure fuel sensors for reading boost on rotaries and drag ecotecs. although they were not desirable to run they did work for the time they were used.

My factory le5 tune is saying 94.43 linear and 10.34 offset? Its also pulling up a different part number.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

I pulled the data from an 08 sky 2.4 which i believe is wrong now that i reviewed it.

This is the data for sensor 12580698 which has been issued by Delphi, the OEM Manufacture:
http://www.powerandsignal.com/docs/Products/09350899.pdf

technically the data sheet for that sensor leaves a linear of 187.492 and an offset of 12.508
and since the range is 187.492 kpa that would be a 27.1934 psi range which comes out to ~ 2 bar with a calculated value of 1.8498 bar at 4.88 V

if you want to know how to find the data yourself its simple algebra... its standard line plotting 101

the plot of a line is y=mx+b m= slope which in this case is (delta pressure/delta voltage) b= y intercept but for this case it is the offset value.
plots for this sensor are (0.195v, 20kpa) and (4.88v, 200kpa)
(200kpa - 20kpa)/(4.88v - 0.195v)= Slope of ~38.4205 since we have two data plots we plug one set into the standard slope formula to find the y intercept (value b). 20kpa = (38.4205)*(0.195kpa) + b --->which comes out to b= 12.508
Value "b" is the "offset value" for the sensor. that is when the sensor reads 0v (which is the y-axis intercept)
to find the linear value you multiply the slope by 5, which gives you the max range of the sensor. 38.4205*5= ~192.1025 (thats your linear plot)
The max read kpa would be found by simply plugging in 5v into the linear equation and solve for the unknown kpa value. y=(38.4205)*(5)+12.508 y=204.6105 (which is 29.676 psi - 1 atm for vacuum read range leaves ~14.976 psi of readable boost)
because there is an offset if you subtract it from the max kpa value then you can verify the range you found before is correct. 204.6105-12.508= 192.1025 this verifies the offset value is correct because it kicked out the range value found in the steps before.

*note the only reason my stated linear of 187.492 is different than my example is because i rounded the data in the example off. DO NOT ROUND YOUR DATA WHEN YOU CALCULATE SENSOR LINEAR DATA!!
normally i have an excel file setup to do the formulas for me to ease the situation.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

My factory le5 tune is saying 94.43 linear and 10.34 offset? Its also pulling up a different part number.

your le5 is telling you your sensor has a linear range or 94.43kpa but its starts reading at a kpa value of 10.34 at 0v soooo your sensors maximum kpa at 5v is 104.77kpa which is equivalent to 15.08 psi ---> subtract 1 atm for reading vacuum in a manifold and you are left with 0.3839 psi of readable boost. your sensor data is telling you that you have a standard 1 BAR Map Sensor installed in your vehicle. can you take a picture of your map sensor and verify your part number for us? We could add it into the list of sensors here.
maybe i had the wrong part number for the 2.4 le5.

[patooyee]

I don't really care about my sensor since I'm looking for the suitable 2.5bar replacement for it. When you said that an NA 2.4L came with a 2bar MAP it told me something seemed fishy though. Just to add to the tech, my sensor part number according to Rock Auto is 12614970. I can confirm that later today when i swing by my shop. Neither of the part numbers you are listing for that Sky are pulling up for a Sky for me so I'm not really sure what to say there. Rock Auto says the sky 2.4L MAP sensor part number is a Bosch 0261230289. How are you pulling up that data on powerandsignal.com? When I punch in the same part number you listed it brings up nothing for me ... I've been trying to find a site with some data like that and have yet to find one.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

It doesn't use gm numbers you have to know the Delphi model

[patooyee]

Where are you getting those?

[cobaltssoverbooster]

Usually some contacts I have in the engineering field give me factory numbers or they will straight give me the data. In this case Delphi handed it out.

[steelmesh]

Since the E67 VE table only goes to 105 kpa, why do we need a 2.5 bar MAP? Is it just so it doesnt break at high boost?

[patooyee]

My e67 VE tables are rpm vs. throttle position, no kpa.