LE5 Turbo build questions

[Robotech]

Thanks for all the replies guys. I'll have a bunch of reading to do this weekend.

The build is almost here.

For the guy that asked what I'm using for my build...here is the LONG list...with part numbers and pricing for anyone wanting to do a LNF turbo install on an LE5. (Mind you this is going on a Saturn Sky so pricing and parts for other LE5 applications will be different)

Turbo Parts
12652494 - K04 Turbocharger $1,365.11
12609878 - Turbocharger to Catalytic Converter Gasket $17.37
12618586 - Turbocharger to Manifold Gasket $13.82
12589452 - Support Brace $20.82
12589408 - Heat Shield Turbo $32.58
12654315 - Oil Pipe Feed Line $100.56
11561946 - Bolt for Oil Line (2) $22.71 each
12611119 - Gasket for Oil Line (2) $7.40 each
12626611 - Water Feed Line $111.58
12618973 - Water Return Line $97.82
11561875 - Bolt for Water lines (3) $15.85 each
12626102 - Gasket for Water lines (3) $9.26 each
12602397 - Exhaust Manifold $482.74
12622668 - Manifold Gasket $11.30
12612286 - Heat Shield Manifold $35.55
12609268 - Catalytic Converter $877.57
15709703 - Nut for Cat to Turbo (4) $2.25 each
Oil Return Line - $89.99 (I have priced these out from ZZP but waiting on a quote from DDM.)

Total for Turbo Parts: $3,301.36


Water System Parts
12605853 - Thermostat Housing $128.51
90537471 - Thermostat Housing Gasket $23.28
12592401 - Outlet Pipe $49.58
90537379 - Outlet Pipe Seal (2) $15.17
Audi PN N90692901 - Audi A4 B8 2.0L Turbo Coolant T-fitting $12.00 at O'Riely*
1" to 3/4" barbed hose adaptor - $5.40 from Napa*
1' section of 7/8" coolant line - $4.40 on eBay*
3/4" to 3/8" barbed hose adaptor - apx $5.00 from Napa*
1' section of 3/4" coolant line - $3.52 on eBay*
Various size hose clamps (5) - apx $4.00*


*These parts are all to tie in the Water Feed line into the upper radiator hose. I found a couple 1? to ?? adaptors but I don?t believe they are rated for engine coolant. Still looking for a better solution than this daisy chain of reducers.

Total for Water System Parts: $254.86


Intercooler Parts
25820725 - Intercooler $542.37
10386886 - Mount Bracket, Left $55.53
10386887 - Mount Bracket, Right $55.53
11609681 - Mount Bracket Bolt (2) $3.26 each
11589039 - Mount Bracket Bolt (4) $3.30 each
19129912 - Mount Bracket Insulator (2) $12.58 each
12595594 - Pipe Assembly $49.82
12615136 - 2 Bar MAP sensor $100.98
19129916 - Inlet Hose $123.86*
15286316 - Inlet Hose Clamp $9.88*
19129914 - Inlet Pipe (IC Hot pipe) $280.05*
20813754 - Upper Bracket $14.47*
15238800 - Lower Bracket $56.88*
15937524 - Air Baffle $30.15**
25791143 - Support Brace Right $23.33**
25791142 - Support Brace Left $23.33**

*These parts are optional if you decide to go with a different solution for your Intercooler piping on the hot side like I did by building the piping using eBay components. However, these stock pieces will work on this build.

**The 2.0L Turbo Sky uses a different Air Baffle and supports in the front bumper to direct air properly towards the Intercooler and radiator. Hardware from the parts on the 2.4 can be reused to attach these new pieces to the body.

Total for Intercooler Parts: $1,411.06


Fuel System Parts
60# Fuel injectors (4) ? $159.00 (I have priced these out from ZZP but waiting on a quote from DDM.)

Total for Fuel System Parts: $159.00


Unique parts that must be fabricated or modified

Universal 2.5? intercooler 8 pc Piping Kit Aluminum - $90.00 on eBay. You need to make sure the kit you get includes piping with 90 degree, 45 degree, and 75 degree elbows. This kit has pipes that are all 18" long, couplers, and t-clamps. This kit is used to build the cold pipe coming off the intercooler. I will be using it for that and the hot side so both sides match. May need more sections of pipe or to cut and weld some of this pipe for final fitment. I will also be using some of this for the new intake. Note the cost on this may increase as the build progresses.

2.5" OD Slot Style MAF sensor aluminum bung - $23.95 on eBay. This will be welded into the cold pipe coming off the intercooler.

JDM Universal manual boost controller - $12.45 on eBay. Used for controlling the boost pressure of the K04 turbo. Still need to check other boost controller options at this point. Not sold on this one yet.

Aluminum 1/2" hose nipple - $14.95 off eBay. This is to connect the vent line from the head of the 2.4 to the new intake tube. This will be welded on the intake tube.

Tune - Free to $600. Really depends on what you have and what you want to do. I have talked to DDM about this and they said they can sell me the tune for this but still need to work out details. If you already own HPTuners, this is basically free but if not then it will all depend on the options you choose.

Total for Unique Parts: $141.35 - $741.35



Total Build Cost (MSRP): $5,267.63 - $5,867.63

That's the list of what I'm using on mine. Now I got lucky and got an entire LNF engine and intercooler for free. I've spent a grand total of $150 on this build and only have injectors, boost controller and oil return line left to purchase other than my tunning option...which brings me back around to here.

It has been so long since I've tuned a car and even that was a 3800 Supercharged pushrod V6. VERY different from this LE5 animal. When you folks talk about turning on the MAF and that sort of thing, my head starts to hurt. So, if you would be so kind since I've determined to go the HP Tuners route, where should I start reading to understand all this stuff before I give myself an aneurism?

[Robotech]

After reading that myself, i would agree, this should be a must read for all E67 users. This software is making all the corrections for you so there is no axis guessing. Not only does it sort the hard stuff out for you it calibrates all the coefficients at once making the process faster. Now i can say ive seen true ve support for the 2.2/2.4 field. This just made these platforms that much better. Thank you for contributing here at HPTForums.

In that tutorial he mentions that he is using the E36 PCM. Is this the same as our E67? Better question, how do I know if my 2007 Sky LE5 uses an E67? (Assuming it is written somewhere on the ECM)

[cobaltssoverbooster]

To find out the ecu model open your tune file in the editor.
Go to Edit- calibration details- controller details. the controller spot is the ecu model.
the e36 is has more features than the e67 (mainly more ethanol controls). you should have an e67 in your 07.

the virtual ve is valid for any ecu with coefficient based fueling. the e36 and e67 both work.

[Robotech]

Roger that and thank you.

All this is still new to me. The L67 was a bit easier. LOL Dinosaur that it was. This was a lot less intimidating starting with a engine with a tune that was already designed for boost.

[Robotech]

So this may seem like a neophyte question but going from NA to turbo on the LE5, what tables do I need to change/edit (assuming the MAP table since I'm going from a 1 bar to 2 bar sensor) and where do I begin? Obviously fueling is the section I need to start in, but do I follow that tutorial and do VE tuning under 4K or are there tables I should copy to my tune and start scanning after uploading that starting point tune?

[cobaltssoverbooster]

i still prefer to run ecu's with true ve based fueling but as long as it can be modeled accurately then im not going to complain. the features of it allow you to make a large ve table out of thin air, modify it, then it pastes all the proper data back into the tables to complete your corrections. Came in handy on a ko4+ Sonic LT

[cobaltssoverbooster]

it depends on how much of the system you need to activate. if you run the turbo controls through the ecu then you have to wire everything to the correct pins and enable the turbocharger controls.
map sensor data will change with the new sensors so pick one that you can easily get gm data for such as the 2.5 bars off the cobalt/hhr/soltice/sky, lots of people have extras. i keep mine for testing purposes.
airflow will change when the turbo is added so you will want to use the virtual ve tool (now included with 2.25 beta software) to tune the ve side of the ecu. as long as you use commanded vs actual afr as the main plot then the ve tool can be used straight through wot runs. if you want to keep the maf sensor then activate it after your ve changes so it can be calibrated accurately.
if you want to run a simple full mechanical turbo system plumb a vacuum line straight from the manifold to the bov. route a manifold vacuum line also to a mechanical boost controller and the outlet of that goes to your wastegate. (you can also substitute the mechanical valve for an electric version.)
the beauty of the external controllers is that you can tune it at 1 psi intervals until you hit as far as you want it to go up. when you are done you can lower the psi setting and drive around on lower boost because the ve has already been tuned for it. personal preference but i find it easier to push a button with a visual number readout than it is to remember how many clicks gives me what psi on a mechanical unit.

[Robotech]

psykostevo, you absolutely ROCK! I can work with that. From here I'd just need to work the fueling tables and probably be about where I need to be.

I'm going with the 60#s because eventually I want to be up in the 400 whp range with this build...this is just phase one.

Say, any suggestions for a good boost controller for this setup?

[PSYKOSTEVO]

I retracted the post, so glad you got your hands on it. :-)

[PSYKOSTEVO]

If you want an idea of the accompanying parts that went into that tune just look at the Strictly Aftermarket LE5 turbo kit. Most of the components are just LNF bolt ons and custom piping. That tune works well on 8psi of boost, so it's not meant for high boost (hence why on 42 pound injectors)

[PSYKOSTEVO]

Actually I might have a mislabeled file there. Feel free to use it for reference, but I don't think its the file I was looking for.

[Robotech]

Actually, I didn't get the file. I'm at work and didn't want to download it on my work computer. LOL Long story there. PM'd you.

It sounds like the exact tune I'm looking for though. I am only doing 60# injectors because I eventually want to increase boost level after this stage of modification. Right now the stock clutch holds me to about 250 whp which this tune should be about perfect for. After the clutch though I can turn up the boost a bit (07 block with factory forged rods) and get to about 300. Then we need to go into the engine or do head work, bigger turbo, and bigger injectors to get to my final mark of around 400 whp.

[patooyee]

psykostevo, you absolutely ROCK! I can work with that. From here I'd just need to work the fueling tables and probably be about where I need to be.

I'm going with the 60#s because eventually I want to be up in the 400 whp range with this build...this is just phase one.

Say, any suggestions for a good boost controller for this setup?

Am I missing something? I don't see any posts by psykostevo before you thanking him?

[PSYKOSTEVO]

Am I missing something? I don't see any posts by psykostevo before you thanking him?

I deleted the post.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

Am I missing something? I don't see any posts by psykostevo before you thanking him?

[patooyee]

map sensor data will change with the new sensors so pick one that you can easily get gm data for such as the 2.5 bars off the cobalt/hhr/soltice/sky, lots of people have extras. i keep mine for testing purposes.
airflow will change when the turbo is added so you will want to use the virtual ve tool (now included with 2.25 beta software) to tune the ve side of the ecu. as long as you use commanded vs actual afr as the main plot then the ve tool can be used straight through wot runs. if you want to keep the maf sensor then activate it after your ve changes so it can be calibrated accurately.

Do you generally go straight VE or do you also use the MAF? What are some reasons one would want to keep the MAF? I have heard that a BOV venting to atmosphere can sometimes screw with a MAF so if keeping the MAF one might want to go with a BOV that recirculates back in front of the turbo? Also I believe that some of the MAP's on the turbo cars were 2-bar and others 2.5. If I planned to boost above 14.7psi but below 22psi wouldn't I need the 2.5-bar? Do you have any part numbers for either?

[cobaltssoverbooster]

i would use the maf until it reached sensor limits and then i would disable it. i almost always activate it on a small turbo swap. it helps the accuracy of the stft so its nice to have on if you can make it work. i have had to install it in a 3" tube on a cruze to keep it from maxing out

[Robotech]

The Sky 2.0 Turbo Redline uses a 2.5 bar MAP and if you go with the GMPP tune they up it to a 3 bar MAP. I'd like to use a 2 bar map, upgrading as I upgrade the build, to keep the system logic operating as it was designed.

For the MAF though, is there a MAF that has a greater range than the one that comes in the 2.4 ecos? Where does our MAF run out?

patooyee, what I understand with installing a vent to atmosphere BOV is so long as you place it BEFORE the MAF, you will be good as the MAF will still be reading the amount of air actually going into the engine.

[patooyee]

The Sky 2.0 Turbo Redline uses a 2.5 bar MAP

Thanks, that's GM part number 12592017 / ACDelco 2133847. Do you happen to have a part number for the connector / pigtail?

[patooyee]

The Sky 2.0 Turbo Redline uses a 2.5 bar MAP

You sure its a 2.5-bar? Some online references are calling it a 2-bar ...

Is there some sort of manufacturer source for specs on these things instead of just relying on internet lore?