07 Mustang VCT help

[csracing]

I'm measuring Cam angle and Cam angle 2 currently. The VCT numbers jump all over the place. Take a look at the attached idle log file. Am I logging the wrong channel? The tune is commanding zero everywhere except higher load/rpm ranges. Why am I seeing the cam angle data changing so quickly and not spending any time at the commanded zero? For quick reference, the average Cam angle value is 9.4 degrees and the average Cam 2 angle s 6.4 degrees.

[caniggia]

What cams are there installed? Are there vct lockouts?
Looks like you have timing problem/worn gears/chain.
If you log cam angle, log also commanded cam angle, then you will know better what's going on.

[csracing]

Lunati 21270720 cams and I'm running 10 degree limiters. Crank gears are new and tensioners are new. I haven't seen a PID for commanded angle in the list, where is it found?

[caniggia]

I was meaning cam angle error.

[csracing]

I logged angle error on a previous log and recorded zeros for the duration of the run. I can re-run and post a log.

[caniggia]

Please do. This means that you probably still command vct. Please post tune in this case.

[csracing]

I guess I was thinking of something else. Logging cam error shows that I do in fact have error that seems to closely correlate with the reported cam angle. See the attached files. The tune is a work in progress and I have a wideband o2 issue for those paying attention.

Please explain the cam error numbers.

thanks

[caniggia]

I belive you missed one tooth when timing gears or you have old worn chains as i see they are not changed.

[csracing]

The heads were milled and I have the cams installed on a 109 degree ICL per Lunati. I have verified the cam timing twice. Once after the engine was assembled but not installed and then again this past weekend when I installed new OEM tensioners.

The phasers and chains had about 45k on them. I doubt they are worn out.

[caniggia]

Cam degreeing has no matter for what cam is showing in log. You have same fuel trims in both banks, so they are degreed correctly one to one.
If you swear about chains, gears, tensioners, then milling head may be some reason, i would not fight with it then and let it run.
Command 8 deg where you do 0 and 18 on top where you want 10.

Belive me or not, but i was changing timing with that miles due to worn out.

[csracing]

It seems to run fine, I'm just trying to understand how the cam angle and the cam angle error correlation. If I want to command 10 degrees, what will I see? 15 degrees with 5 degrees of error? I will run an experiment later on and report back. I'll command 10 degrees everywhere in the tune.

[csracing]

Here's a log and tune showing the VCT commanded to 10 degrees. No difference. I'm not seeing any VCT codes, are there other parameters I'm missing? I'm just making changes in the torque and load based tables (even though load is selected as the input method).

Secondly take a look at the idle speed. I'm seeing ~75rpm surges periodically for no apparent reason. What could that be from?

Thanks
CSR

[wayno]

Springs are probably too heavy to work with the vct lock them out and don't worry about it.

[caniggia]

75 rpm surge may be just grin cams.if you command 8 in software, you will have in real 0, but you will see them still 8 advance with log, but no error.
Its not caused by springs is this example.

[csracing]

75 rpm surge may be just grin cams.if you command 8 in software, you will have in real 0, but you will see them still 8 advance with log, but no error.
Its not caused by springs is this example.

The log posted above was commanding 10 degrees across the board and getting no where near it. The same cam angle errors were present. It seems likely that the springs are overpowering the VCT system.

[caniggia]

I forgot to tell you, that you can't command any angle at idle. That's why it's still shows error, because it's still requesting 0 degrees.

[wayno]

In your log, your bouncing on your limiter on bank 1. Is the motor noisy? What is your spring specs? what oil are you running?

Usually when I see that its either a oiling problem or the springs are too heavy for the vct.

[csracing]

The motor doesn't seem noisy mechanically. I've put my head down by the valve covers several times and all I have noticed is the usual injector noise.

The springs are 300lb/in and are 257lb on the nose of the cam per Lunati.

Idle oil pressure cold is 75psi and about 28psi hot. I had the heads apart and measured the oil clearance on both cams. Bank 1 has about .001" more clearance than Bank 2 so I guess it's possible that I'm seeing more oil pressure bleed on that side.

I'll pull the phasers apart and lock them out.

[wayno]

yeah those are heavy springs for the vct. Ive noticed anything above about 198 the vct gets unstable below 1200 rpm or so.

not sure what it is, but I have seen stock heads and cams with heavy springs (comp 26125) was more unstable on bank 1 vs bank 2, maybe cause the oiling comes from the back of the block.

[caniggia]

In this particular situation they are already retarded, i meancam wheels in relation to crank wheel. Vct has nothing to do here.