Is the base fuel table in any strategey?
I have base fuel cold, and wot fuel, but no base fuel.
Can this be added if its not?
Is the base fuel table in any strategey?
I have base fuel cold, and wot fuel, but no base fuel.
Can this be added if its not?
no base fuel, the stoich afr is your base fuel until wot
Well that's strange because my commanded moves around quite a bit when not at wot...yet my stoich is a fixed value. Yet at wot it's consistent and the same value throughout the pull. When trying to tune maf you're essentially trying to hit a moving target because there is no apparent pattern to when the commanded eq is going to change. It fluctuates from upper 1.0x to about 0.98x so something is commanding this and it's not the stoich.Originally Posted by wayno
"I didn't fail, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong." - Benjamin Franklin
it moves because your o2's are picking up a fueling error and the ecu is adjusting to get the o2's back to lambda 1, stoich afr.
So on your logic, also with the knowledge that these cars only run open loop on initial startup, then the commanded eq should never be consistent. Not at idle. Not at wot. Never should the commanded eq stay steady based on that. I cannot tell you a time when I've gone wot and the commanded eq does not show exactly what's in the wot lambda table, yet my actual lambda may be off by 1-2%.
"I didn't fail, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong." - Benjamin Franklin
Is it the Fuel Imbalance Monitor? I was reading about it in the Coyote Cookbook. Seems the Fueling Values get multiplied by these values? I'm not entirely sure.
Engine>Fuel>General>Open & Closed Loop>Fuel Imbalance Monitor
the closer you get your trims short and long term to 1, or 0 in hpt , the more stable commanded eq will be. its not my logic its what I see in the data.
go in and add 5% to your maf at idle and see if your commanded is the inverse of that.
What do you guys mean by commanded eq? Percentage of Stoich( aka Lambda)?
Commanded doesn't move in the other fords I've messed with.
Fuel trims are what is supposed to move. How is adding a percent to a moving target making sense? There has to be a table telling it what to look for; it doesn't magically know. Also changing the desired stoich should have 0 bearing on any lambda value anyhow, since regardless of fuel lambda 1 is lambda 1.
Fuel imbalance for my strategy is all 1s. I even went as far as to either zero or set to 1 all fuel related tables (multipliers). Transient, lost fuel, etc etc etc. commanded still moves.
My wot table and my actual lambda was considerably far off today due to a change I was making. Yet commanded wot (.8xx) didn't move despite it being grossly rich (.720s) by the logic above; because it's so far off the commanded should be moving to adjust for the problem since it's still closed loop.
Not to mention, the fuel base cold table references the "base fuel" table in its description.
I'm going to email support and ask about it and see what the deal is. It's gotta gotta be there, we just don't have it.
in closed loop commanded does move when the fueling is out of whack on the fords... I will post a log in the morning of a Spanish oak and screw the maf.
now on a factory ford wideband car the base fuel is your stoich afr that is your commanded lambse whether its 14.64,14.08,9.29,9.85. whatever you put there its going to target that until you reach wot thresholds. No more base fuel its useless......haven't seen commanded eq move at wot on the copperhead, but part throttle and cruise it moves trying to reach the lambda 1.
base fuel is not in sct either.
not sure what the big deal is about a base fuel on the copperhead. when its calibrated right you don't need it. as long as long terms stay at zero and short terms are within +/- couple % with adaptive on then it doing what its suppose too.
So...the closer to 0% ft the steadier commanded eq? Ok...let's roll with this:
So with a 0/0 ft then commanded eq equals 1.000 right? WRONG!!!!!!! I've had plenty of cells that have hit 0/0 st/lt and steady as well. Cruise control works great for testing this and a solid maf table...guess what...commanded moves. So...commanded eq has to be derived from something else...as linke stated...try zeroing mulipliers, balance, etc and commanded still moves. None of the "explanations" offered are acceptable. You guys that have offered up explanations as to why, thank you. The input has been great, but as you can see by getting away from just blindly accepting what's in front of you and looking at it from another perspective you can see that commanded should not move...you have ol, stoich, and wot. In order to hit stoich, you need a steady commanded. Without that you're aiming for something that is constantly fluctuating. What the purpose of this thread seems to be is to get that table, be it a base fuel or something else added so that we aren't seeking a moving target.
Also...why is EVERY other table that references the air fuel mixture in lambda...then we have this stoich afr value? 1.0 lambda is 1.0 lambda from 87 octane to nitromethane. It's always 1.0.
"I didn't fail, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong." - Benjamin Franklin
For whatever reason, the SAE PID for commanded equivalence ratio is showing correction, not actual commanded. I will work on getting the commanded lambda added. It will show commanded 1.0 all times after the initial open loop startup (when the base fuel table cold is used)
Eric Brooks
HP Tuners, LLC
So what's going to happen when it isn't running in the cold base fuel table? All of the base fuel tables, timers, and settings make reference to another base fuel table. Where is it?
Eric, you say it's a scanner issue, and it is showing correction...but at wot it's steady and showing exactly what's in the wot lambda table.
Last edited by schaid; 09-02-2015 at 10:27 AM.
"I didn't fail, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong." - Benjamin Franklin
Forced fuel base cold 100% by setting the ect settings to run just that and it still jumped to another value, 1.007-1.009. On a slight throttle touch went to 0.988 then 0.998 then to 1.011 then settled back to 1.007-1.009. I also tested the tune with normal fuel base cold enable/disable and the results were the exact same.
"I didn't fail, I just found 100 ways to do it wrong." - Benjamin Franklin
Generally this is for adding and subtracting fuel from individual cylinders. Typically you won't have the proper tools to do this the right way, so its probably of dubious benefit to mess with them. You'd need individual oxygen sensors for each cylinder.
I think you're over concentrating on the existence of a base fuel table. I do not believe that one exists in the newest Ford architectures.
There really are 3 fueling modes you run into during normal driving, and you may be able to log them if you have a "Fuel Source" PID:
0 - Stoichiometric/Normal - This is the normal targeting scheme. It targets 1.00 Lambda. No if-and-or-buts. 1.00. The only thing affecting it are trims, which remember are the ECU's way of trying to correct for inaccuracies in the airflow, injectors, oxygen sensor reading, etc.
4 - Cold Operation - This operates from the Base Fuel Cold table. It happens when the engine is cold. I believe there are also situations during part throttle you may run from this table, but I'm not 100% on that.
I.e. this table:
2015-09-03 10_40_05-VCM Editor - C__Users_sgoldade_Downloads_1431533836.hpt.png
5 - Power Demand - This happens when you exceed the Power Demand throttle position. The fueling changes to the power demand table.
The pedal position:
2015-09-03 10_45_36-VCM Editor - C__Users_sgoldade_Downloads_1431533836.hpt.png
The fuel table:
2015-09-03 10_44_58-VCM Editor - C__Users_sgoldade_Downloads_1431533836.hpt.png
That should be the very basics. The idea is to target stoich as much as possible. That's where your catalysts function the best, and thereby where the least emissions are produced.
i was tuning in an intake yesterday and commanded EQ is still a moving target. any news on commanded lambda instead? so easy to turn off closed loop and tune on these cars. no more jacking up to install a wideband. so nice.
It shows the commanded eq to reach 1.0 , the ecu will command whatever it needs to hit 1.0, that moving target you see is the correction to the fuel to hit that 1.0 not actually commanded eq. Just figure commanded will be 1.0 unless wot fuel is in play then it will be showing comanded of whatever you set that wot table for.
GOD HELP US ALL....
So the ECM is raping itself? How can you accurately tune airflow tables if you have a moving target?
If the ECM is moving EQ Ratio to get the mixture to 1.0, then it's better to tune MAF (open loop) using Maths based on EQ Ratio vs a set value of 1.0 rather than using EQ/Lambda Error?
I only skimmed this thread... But here is something to add to the discussion.
The factory doesn't command a steady Stoich on purpose. They move it up and down about 2% above and below stoich to charge the catalytic converters with oxygen. The converters work better this way.. Datalog a Ford Racing control pack car and you will see a steady 1.0 lambse because the control pack strategy is written for a non-emmisions car.
so disable the cat test and cat criterias and it will be steady state? if you have a car without cats, how do you obtain a steady 1.0?
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