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Thread: What am I doing wrong? Begginner in VE tables

  1. #1
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    What am I doing wrong? Begginner in VE tables

    I am a beginner tuner, with very little knowledge on the subject. I?m attempting to follow the instructions given at ls1tuningguide.com, but I?m running into some errors.

    Car ? 99 Mazda Miata with ?99 Firebird LS1/T56, custom cam, ?06 Z06 MAF sensor (5-wire blade-style), stock injectors
    Computer was a duplicate from my road-race 99 Firebird, which was heavily modified and tuned. I copied the fuel and timing tables from a stock ?02 Camaro trying to get back to a stock-ish tune. I averaged the values from the ?06 MAF to get values that would match the frequencies that the Firebird computer is looking for. The car runs on this setup (attachment called Miata_tune1), but is rich and underpowered.

    I then setup another tune (MIATA_TUNE-fuel_calibration) where I put it into open loop with a failed MAF. I ran the Scanner per the instructions to pull the %AFR error, and copy/paste special by % back into the fuel tables. The more I did this (even trying %1/2) the worse the car ran, and started to go from far rich to far lean and back on acceleration. The car also won?t idle on this tune, despite the raised idle and idle airflow.

    There must be something simple I?m missing here. Please look over my files, and see if you see something I?m doing wrong. I have HPtuners Pro, with ASPX wideband gauge connected. The readings in the scanner match those on the gauge.

    Many thanks in advance, Jim.
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  2. #2
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    So I would say you are not tuning the secondary VE table then when complete, (taking out of SD) copy and pasting it to the primary VE table to the same MAP axis and then interpolating between.....

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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    What Ed is saying may be part of the problem. An easy way around this, after you make any changes to the primary VE table, highlight the entire thing, then right click and choose "Copy With Labels". After that, open the secondary VE Table, right click the top left cell, and click paste. This will automatically take the appropriate data from the primary table and fit it to the secondary table which has a different axis for MAP...these 2 tables need to be the same.

    You are failing the MAF sensor correctly, make sure once it's failed that you remove it from the table in the scanner. Can you post up your AFR % Error PID?

    Whenever I tune VE, I use paste special multiply by % - half...otherwise I chase my tail back and forth and never get anywhere. Sometimes if I fire a car up and see a gross error across the board, I'll just go into the VE table and make a global change first before bothering with any data logging...but I don't know that you need to do that.
    Last edited by MikeOD; 07-27-2015 at 07:42 AM.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

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    Ah, I did not realize the two tables had different axis. Excellent, thanks. Let me look for that PID right quick.

    Thanks!

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    Here's the histogram I'm using for my VE AFR%error. I think that's what you were asking for.
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  6. #6
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rocktman View Post
    Here's the histogram I'm using for my VE AFR%error. I think that's what you were asking for.
    You can use the primary VE Histo (will log and report more data than you need), just copy and paste the map rows that lineup with the backup table after you make the error corrections. Or generate a new histo with the sam MAP axis values as Mike added.

    Ed M

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    Last edited by mowton; 07-27-2015 at 12:01 PM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
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  7. #7
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    Thanks for the assistance. This is the longest day of work ever - I want to get home and retry this now!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowton View Post
    You can use the primary VE Histo (will log and report more data than you need), just copy and paste the map rows that lineup with the backup table after you make the error corrections. Or generate a new histo with the sam MAP axis values as Mike added.

    Ed M
    Ed,

    You don't even need to do that. Apply the changes to the primary VE table, then in the editor, click the upper left corner between the axes (it will select the whole table), then choose "Copy With Labels", then open the secondary VE table, right click the first cell in the upper left and choose paste...the software will fill in everything matching to the different axis for you.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeOD View Post
    Ed,

    You don't even need to do that. Apply the changes to the primary VE table, then in the editor, click the upper left corner between the axes (it will select the whole table), then choose "Copy With Labels", then open the secondary VE table, right click the first cell in the upper left and choose paste...the software will fill in everything matching to the different axis for you.
    Mike, not to smart to say thanks, and I didnt know that :-)

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
    HP Tuners Dealer- VCM Suite (free 2hr training session with purchase), credits and new Version 2.0 turtorial available
    http://www.ermperformancetuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/ERMPerformanceTuning

    [email protected]

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowton View Post
    Mike, not to smart to say thanks, and I didnt know that :-)

    Ed M
    I just learned about it about 3 or 4 weeks ago...I've only been using this software for like...7 years or something LOL.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

  11. #11
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    Well, sometimes cars suck...
    It looked like the new step that Mike recommended was working well. I was about a block away from my house, collecting data for the 3rd time when oil shot all over the passenger headers. Hauled butt home and had a small fire to contend with. No damage that I can see, but I now have to figure this out. My guess is that it shot out of the dipstick area on the oil pan. Got dark too quick to spend much time on it.