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Thread: need e67 virtual ve and transient fueling pointers

  1. #1
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    need e67 virtual ve and transient fueling pointers

    Does anyone have any good guides for tuning the virtual VE table on a e67? I have found nothing, and i don't see how or where to adjust it?! Maybe i'll just run MAF only? Thoughts?

    How about gen 4 transient fueling? This is all new to me. I'm pretty sure I need some work with transient fueling with this new cam. I'll let you be the judge. I'll post up a datalog so you can compare my TPS to AFR spikes. Note this is with an un-tuned VE table, but damn near perfect MAF calibration. Feel free to pick apart anything else you "see wrong". I'm aware of the slight knock count. It's just from my car rattling around.

    Hopefully the .cfg file loads up the custom PID for AFR / wideband. I datalog using the a/c pressure sensor
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    Last edited by itsdaveonline; 07-20-2015 at 10:58 PM.

  2. #2
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    You adjust virtual VE nearly the same way you adjust a regular VE table... you'll need access to the 2.25 beta in order to adjust VVE coeffecients in HPT. Email support and they'll get you access.

    There is a virtual VE editor that will give you a "VE" table to adjust. Then it will calculate the speed density coefficients for you.

    Good luck on transient fueling.. I've been messing with that area on mine the last few days and haven't had much luck so far. It's been more trial and error than anything (mainly the error part)
    Post a log and tune if you want help

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  3. #3
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    Ok cool i emailed support. Hopefully they come through.

    Is there anything different with tuning the virtual ve over say a Gen 3 ve table or older gen 4 pcm? I'm wondering if can i just follow the instructions in a guide for an ls2 which uses an older pcm. I'll start with the ve before messing with transient. Im thinking some tip in / out spikes are due to stock ve table values

  4. #4
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    The concept is the same. You'll have to adjust or create a histogram to match the RPM/MAP break points in the virtual VE editor so you can figure out how much to adjust each cell, but overall it's the same process.. Basically, figure out error at each point in the VE table, make adjustment accordingly, hit calculate coefficients, then you can write the file and do it all over again.
    Post a log and tune if you want help

    VCM Suite V3+ GETTING STARTED THREADS / HOW TO's

    Tuner by night
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    ECS 1500 Supercharger
    AlkyControl Meth, Monster LT1-S Twin, NT05R's
    ID1000's, 220/240, .598/.598, 118 from Cam Motion

    2007 Escalade, A6
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  5. #5
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    So which VE mode do i want to modify?



    And is it normal practice to place 1's across on the open loop multiplier tables (just while im tuning & datalogging VE)? For reference i modified all the open loop & open loop gain tables to a value of 1 with the exception of inj temp gain.

    edit i guess ill just post my normal tune, then that same tune modified for tuning / datalogging VE. Let me know if i missed something.
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    Last edited by itsdaveonline; 07-21-2015 at 05:57 PM.

  6. #6
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    I can't remember whether you're supposed to do manifold switch closed or open.. so I'd just pick one, and once you're done copy/paste the whole thing to the other one so you cover them both.

    Yes, pretty normal to do 1's in those tables. I only do it in the areas that you'll use once it's warmed up just to avoid anything weird happening on cold starts.
    Post a log and tune if you want help

    VCM Suite V3+ GETTING STARTED THREADS / HOW TO's

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    ID1000's, 220/240, .598/.598, 118 from Cam Motion

    2007 Escalade, A6
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  7. #7
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    Cool thanks man. You've been a huge help w/ getting my car dialed in. It's driving awesome. All i have left is this small stuff.

    Edit: I return the open loop & open loop gain tables back to stock once im done tuning right? I'm guessing so, but want to be certain

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsdaveonline View Post
    Cool thanks man. You've been a huge help w/ getting my car dialed in. It's driving awesome. All i have left is this small stuff.

    Edit: I return the open loop & open loop gain tables back to stock once im done tuning right? I'm guessing so, but want to be certain
    No problem!

    I set mine back stock.. Those tables don't really do anything as long as you're in closed loop, but I'd set it back to stock once you're done anyways. Some people set the areas you use during normal "hot" driving to 1 so that it doesn't mess with PE fueling, so you could do that too.

    I had these tables screwed up one time and had some crazy cold start issues. It was commanding an AFR of like 7:1 on cold starts or something like that, lol. Needless to say, it didn't start.
    Post a log and tune if you want help

    VCM Suite V3+ GETTING STARTED THREADS / HOW TO's

    Tuner by night
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    2005 Corvette, M6
    ECS 1500 Supercharger
    AlkyControl Meth, Monster LT1-S Twin, NT05R's
    ID1000's, 220/240, .598/.598, 118 from Cam Motion

    2007 Escalade, A6
    Stock

  9. #9
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    Wow my VE table was way off. And the stock VE "table" is really weird looking. Hopefully my car will run happier now that the good MAF data is blended with better VE data...

    With SD, MAF disabled & open loop it seems like the car ran slightly better with more power in low RPM. I didn't get to test it going fast since my AFR was soo far off.



  10. #10
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    Do you have histogram filters in place for deceleration and stuff like that?
    Last edited by dcpatters; 07-22-2015 at 07:10 PM.

  11. #11
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    uhm no. Plz enlighten me. I made this histogram and did all the PIDS myself. So not saying they are all correct. The guide i had mentioned nothing of this tho.

  12. #12
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    I usually log PEDAL position (not throttle) and setup the VE correction histogram(s) to filter out anything where the pedal is under about 3%. Helps filter out stuff where you're engine braking, etc. which can do some screwy things.

    Yeah I noticed the same on your stock VE table... the virtual VE tables will always look choppier than a "regular" one, it's just the nature of the beast.. but yours is a bit wonky, haha.

    Yours should run a bit better after getting the VE data in line.

    It does look like you're getting some good data though.. and I like the colors you're using. I'm going to copy them
    Post a log and tune if you want help

    VCM Suite V3+ GETTING STARTED THREADS / HOW TO's

    Tuner by night
    CPX Tuning
    2005 Corvette, M6
    ECS 1500 Supercharger
    AlkyControl Meth, Monster LT1-S Twin, NT05R's
    ID1000's, 220/240, .598/.598, 118 from Cam Motion

    2007 Escalade, A6
    Stock

  13. #13
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    Good idea on logging the pedal position.

    So far this beta is a flaming POS. In a nutshell i can’t use the non-beta version of VCM scanner in conjunction with the beta version of VCM editor. Ideally that’d be the best combo since the beta scanner is so far from complete it won’t do custom PID’s or histograms, which makes it useless for me.

    It seems you have to exclusively use the beta suite or the regular version suite. So I was trying to be clever by building the VE table inside the Beta VCM editor, calculating the new coefficients, then pasting those values into the old vcm editor and saving. But if I double check the table by opening that same tune file in the beta editor the map looks like the craters on the moon. The table is totally raped and incorrect even though the coefficients are the same (only they were set using the old editor).

    So I guess my questions are:
    -is there another software to check my coefficients to see that they display a normal looking table?
    -is it possible to use the beta editor w/ the normal vcm scanner. If so – how???

  14. #14
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    Two observations but sounds like all is resolved....

    You can still use the BlueCat VVE tool and run latest 2.24. I still am until things settle down.

    You would use the Open version of the VVE. Open/closed relates to 2 part manifolds that GM has used. There is a valve inside the manifold to create 2 separate manifold chambers for low end operation and then it gets opened to increase efficiency and horsepower fro medium to high end operation. But making all of them the same will certainly cover you :-)..I still do.

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    Good info ed. I just have an ls2 with the stock intake manifold. I don't think it has any actuating valves. But for good measure ill still set all the values the same. At least now i know the differences and intended functions in the vve editor now!

    The blucat tool sounds useful. Where can i get that? Is it free?
    Last edited by itsdaveonline; 07-23-2015 at 12:31 PM.

  16. #16
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    The tool is a total pain in the ass to use, at least IMO.

    I haven't had any problems using 2.24 scanner and 2.25 editor. You have to open the programs manually then open the .hpt or .hpl files from there (or I usually get the wrong version of HPT's software opening up on me), but otherwise it has worked fine.

    Got a log or something I can try messing with just to see how it does on my end?

    They had some copy/paste problems in 2.25 editor not long ago. I thought they were fixed now though.
    Post a log and tune if you want help

    VCM Suite V3+ GETTING STARTED THREADS / HOW TO's

    Tuner by night
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    2005 Corvette, M6
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    AlkyControl Meth, Monster LT1-S Twin, NT05R's
    ID1000's, 220/240, .598/.598, 118 from Cam Motion

    2007 Escalade, A6
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by itsdaveonline View Post

    The bluecat tool sounds useful. Where can i get that? Is it free?
    If we didn't have VVE in the latest beta, I would recommend Bluecat's tool, however, it's not so intuitive. You'll need to read up on it a bit. Don't get me wrong, it works and when I used it sent a donation for the contribution.

    Quote Originally Posted by schpenxel View Post
    The tool is a total pain in the ass to use, at least IMO.

    I haven't had any problems using 2.24 scanner and 2.25 editor.
    Same here; whilst I have not used the 2.25 scanner, I found 2.25 editor and 2.24 scanner work perfectly.

  18. #18
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    Gah okay I'll mess around it at home. That's weird you guys can use & connect with either the standard or beta suite

  19. #19
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    You have to use the newest version of both for it to work. Once you use the beta you can't use any older versions of 2.24 (only the latest one)
    Post a log and tune if you want help

    VCM Suite V3+ GETTING STARTED THREADS / HOW TO's

    Tuner by night
    CPX Tuning
    2005 Corvette, M6
    ECS 1500 Supercharger
    AlkyControl Meth, Monster LT1-S Twin, NT05R's
    ID1000's, 220/240, .598/.598, 118 from Cam Motion

    2007 Escalade, A6
    Stock

  20. #20
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    Okay i must have just had the old version. The software is actually cooperating with me now. My new table is getting in the ballpark now, and a/f in open loop is getting better.

    Should i just tune it to 4000 RPM and call it good? It uses MAF only i think from there.