What tune changes need to be made for a Boss 302 Intake Manifold on a 2014 Coyote

[AKDMB]

Hello,

I was just wondering what tune changes need to be made to account for a Boss 302 Intake Manifold. As far as raising the limiter to 7700 RPM, what all needs to be done to let the car make power and stay safe at that RPM? This is a potential mod I want to do with my project car.

Car and Mods:

2014 Coyote Crate Motor (Late build 2014 motor, so it has 2015 Mustang heads)

3mm larger than stock Intake tube with pod filter (already know how to tune for this)

Boss Intake Manifold (potentially)

Stock throttlebody

Longtubes(stock 02 sensor location) running straight into sidepipes

I figured that this would be a useful thread as this is a pretty popular mod that I'm sure many will be looking to account for.

Thanks,
Trent

[wbt]

Hello,

I was just wondering what tune changes need to be made to account for a Boss 302 Intake Manifold. As far as raising the limiter to 7700 RPM, what all needs to be done to let the car make power and stay safe at that RPM? This is a potential mod I want to do with my project car.

Car and Mods:

2014 Coyote Crate Motor (Late build 2014 motor, so it has 2015 Mustang heads)

3mm larger than stock Intake tube with pod filter (already know how to tune for this)

Boss Intake Manifold (potentially)

Stock throttlebody

Longtubes(stock 02 sensor location) running straight into sidepipes

I figured that this would be a useful thread as this is a pretty popular mod that I'm sure many will be looking to account for.

Thanks,
Trent

Need to change the manifold volume. Stock intake is 11.10, Boss is 11.74.

Nothing wrong with using the stock airbox, just find a Boss intake tube for it.

Stock throttle body is fine.

Why are the o2 sensors in the stock location on the long tubes? You won't get an accurate air/fuel reading that way. They need to be in the collector where all tubes merge.

[AKDMB]

They are within 1" of stock location in relation to the head compared to stock shorty style headers. I am building a factory five mk4 roadster (65 shelby cobra replica) so packaging was an issue with the stock airbox, that's why I am using an aftermarket Intake that just so happens to be slightly larger than stock. I am assuming the fueling and timing fall off after 7000 rpm or whatever the stock limiter is, so I am guessing you have to extend those out some. The 7700rpm hard limiter is still in place right? Do you still want to command the same .83 λ and 25 degrees of timing or so at WOT like you normally would at lower rpm's (I'm talking like 5000rpm+) ?

[txcharlie]

Where are you installing the WBs?

[wbt]

They are within 1" of stock location in relation to the head compared to stock shorty style headers. I am building a factory five mk4 roadster (65 shelby cobra replica) so packaging was an issue with the stock airbox, that's why I am using an aftermarket Intake that just so happens to be slightly larger than stock. I am assuming the fueling and timing fall off after 7000 rpm or whatever the stock limiter is, so I am guessing you have to extend those out some. The 7700rpm hard limiter is still in place right? Do you still want to command the same .83 λ and 25 degrees of timing or so at WOT like you normally would at lower rpm's (I'm talking like 5000rpm+) ?

Got it.

That location looks fine for the front o2's as it is a merge point for the tubes.

+1 on the air box

Yes on the limiters. The controls pack ECU should rev out to ~8,300. If you are installing a 6R80 with all the supporting items then ~7,700 is the hard limit there.

Yes on fueling and timing. .83 on the fuel against 14.08 AFR and stay in the 25* range for max commanded.

[AKDMB]

Awesome, I'm also guessing that once I change the manifold volume that I will have the play with the MAF a little more to get the fuel trims dialed back in? Or is this just for the PCM to simulate a MAP in a failed MAF scenario?

[wbt]

Awesome, I'm also guessing that once I change the manifold volume that I will have the play with the MAF a little more to get the fuel trims dialed back in? Or is this just for the PCM to simulate a MAP in a failed MAF scenario?

The descriptor for the manifold volume setting - [ECM] 12003 - Intake Manifold Volume: The volume of the intake manifold. Used as an input into the transient fueling model.

I haven't really seen much change on my own car on the fuel trims moving from the Stock to Boss intakes. Changing the MAF area via a different air inlet setup is the only noticeable change I have come across where I had to modify the transfer function to get it back in line.

[David Borden]

AKDMB,

Good to see another FFR Mk4 owner on the site...

David

[AKDMB]

Hopefully the motor will go in this weekend, good luck with your build. I'm glad to have another resource to go to for help.

[AKDMB]

Bringing this one back from the dead. Someone on another forum asked about all of the tune changes needed for the Boss 302 Intake Manifold and it got me wondering about another aspect of this topic. When you raise the Fuel Cutoff limit, do you have to go through every table that makes reference to rpm in its' axes and change all of them? For example, if you raised your fuel cutoff to 7700rpm, would you then go through all your mapped points and readjust the axes to go all the way up to 7700rpm and then come up with legitimate values to fill the "new" spaces in these tables? There are tons of tables that make reference to rpm in the tune, all 16 borderline mapped points, all 16 mbt mapped points, IVO Angle, EVO Angle, WOT Lambda, Cylinder Pressure Limit, and many more. Do you have to change all of these or does the car work it out when you raise the fuel cutoff rpm?


Also secondary question, I just noticed the parameter Engine Speed Enable/Disable

Engine>Airflow>General>Engine Speed Enable

Engine>Airflow>General>Engine Speed Disable

Description - [ECM] 50060 - Desired Air Mass Max Engine Speed to Enable: Engine Speed to enable Desired Air Mass logic.

If you set your fuel cutoff to 7700rpm, I'm assuming you would set Engine Speed Enable to 7700rpm and then set Engine Speed Disable to 8200rpm? Is this right?

Again, thanks in advance guys.

[kris5597]

You need to raise rev limiter for starters. Cam angles need to be bracketed to tune for the new VE of the new intake manifold if running boss. Also, whatever rpm breakpoint is the highest rpm number, if you rev past it, the car will flatline at whatever the last table specifies, whether that's ignition advance, IVO, EVC, and fuel. If your going to rev way past the last rpm breakpoints set from the factory, they need to be adjusted accordingly.

That's the first thing I did with my tune then bracketed the cams.

[AKDMB]

Ok, cool, that makes a lot of sense. The stock Boss 302 tune in the repository should make for an ok starting place for some of those values, the timing at least. Thanks for the help.

[ericb027]

Need to change the manifold volume. Stock intake is 11.10, Boss is 11.74.

Nothing wrong with using the stock airbox, just find a Boss intake tube for it.

Stock throttle body is fine.

Why are the o2 sensors in the stock location on the long tubes? You won't get an accurate air/fuel reading that way. They need to be in the collector where all tubes merge.

Are you supposed to change the Intake Manifold Volume for Cobra Jet intake too? And would you know the volume? Because I'm still having idle issues

[txcharlie]

Cobra Jet = 12.899

[ericb027]

Cobra Jet = 12.899

Where exactly would this be at fuel-transient-manifold volume right?

[tbrtuning]

Is that the actual volume or has that just started being quoted from the Cobra Jet tune on the repository?

That is the supercharged Cobra Jet and I find it interesting the same number referenced as the Cobra Jet intake manifold volume is what is used for the Whipple supercharger that's also used in that Cobra Jet tune.

[txcharlie]

Where exactly would this be at fuel-transient-manifold volume right?

Correct.

[txcharlie]

Is that the actual volume or has that just started being quoted from the Cobra Jet tune on the repository?

That is the supercharged Cobra Jet and I find it interesting the same number referenced as the Cobra Jet intake manifold volume is what is used for the Whipple supercharger that's also used in that Cobra Jet tune.

That is the volume of the N/A Cobra Jet intake manifold. It came from my sources,, not a tune.

[tbrtuning]

Awesome. Just checking because it was a little strange that it was the same as what was used on the Whipple tunes.

[txcharlie]

Awesome. Just checking because it was a little strange that it was the same as what was used on the Whipple tunes.

I noticed the same thing. The data came from training info, so I assume it's reliable, but have not tuned a SCJ intake.