New to tuning 6.0 4l80e. Cia, shift kit,True dual exhaust

[2xLS1]

So let me get this straight. You think trying to make power at WOT with a 14.7:1 a/f ratio like the truck in the OP is a good thing? Asking both Howes and Ranger.

[Ranger6202]

The better people to ask would be GM.
It's known that lean makes more torque, but you're sacrificing the chance of detonation and wearing your rings down quicker. We've all been taught lean WOT is not good, but GM does it stock for an entire 60 sec's on the 6.0's. So how can it be completely wrong? Especially if you're not seeing knock or extreme temps, And if you're stock.

A thought..........On enhanced vehicles with boost, they use methanol to cool the intake to avoid detonation. Why not make it richer and pull timing rather than running as lean as they are (no one wants to give up the power you gain with lean and the advance their using). So with a stocker, if your iat and ect temps are in an acceptable range, you should be able to run a range of lean just fine. And then you have the adders for increased iat and ect.

Let me know what ya think, good think-tank going on here.

-sorry, had to edit this a few times, kept coming up with better ways to word it.

[2xLS1]

They get away with it because they run pathetic amounts of ignition timing. Look at some of the WOT pulls in that log. In the higher rpms the timing is 15* or less.

[Ranger6202]

So even they prefer running lean instead of adding timing. Which I don't see a problem with if your iat and ect is ideal. Even if they're not, you can aggressively use your iat and ect enrichment tables to keep you in the clear.

[jaysonpeyton]

Ok so ive read and read and still reading. But im trying to learn my ltft and stft. I reset them so it would relearn them. But i noticed all my llft are zeroed out but my stft goes all over from say 7 to i think i saw a few 30s. Would this but normal. I was about to start logging but noticed this just doesnt sound like what the huide was saying it should be.

[Ranger6202]

Is your ride up to temp? LTFT's won't start changing till its up to temp. Do some looking on the ol/cl tab and you'll find the temp setting that enables them. STFT's are pretty dramatic, i wouldn't get too caught up in their action yet. If your LTFT's are dramatic all over the place, then it means you've got some work to do on the air flow tables.

[Ranger6202]

2xls1 - was curious if you've ever dyno'd a leaner tune with low timing over a richer tune with more timing? I could build the tunes, but the nearest dyno to me is 2 hours away, so it'll take me awhile to make it back down there. I did dyno my truck for the first time yesterday, but i wasn't ready to test this theory yet. I was popping my dyno cherry and getting the feel for what to expect. Put 474 hp down @ 10#'s of boost, 2 degrees of timing jumped me up from 452, added another degree and only got 3 more. I was running about 5% richer than i preferred at WOT, but i ran out of time and didn't make the change to see what it would do.

But i am curious to which would put down or gain more, rich advance or lean retarded?

[2xLS1]

Don't try and compare what you are tuning to tuning NA. Tuning NA timing will usually make more power than leaning out A/F once you get the A/F to a certain point. What GM is doing with PE delay on those 6.0L trucks is just stupid for making power.

[jaysonpeyton]

ok so im tring to tune my VE table using my fuel trims. i did unhook maf, copied high to low octane table, flashed, drove 100 miles, then logged 25 min after warming up truck. well my stfts are all -9 or so does that mean that my ltfts have not been learned? all my ltfts are steady at -2 everywhere. just dont want to screw this up. do i copy my ltft histogram and paste special-add it into ve table. then do the saME WITH MY STFT histogram. or should i start tuning with stfts alone?

[Ranger6202]

well my stfts are all -9 or so does that mean that my ltfts have not been learned? all my ltfts are steady at -2 everywhere.

At the top of your scanner do you have "A" selected, when looking at LTFT's and STFT's? Sometimes when you hit a value a lot, it takes a lot longer to get the average ("A") to equal the right value. So what you can do is toggle between "A" and "L" (last) to give you and idea where it should be. If your data is pretty constant and not jumpy, "L" will be best, if you have a couple random high or low values, toggle to "A" to get a better idea of what that cell should be. This is where "hand smoothing" is very much needed, and a lot of people don't get it or realize how hand smoothing is required. They'll try to drive and drive the trims in the right direction to get the table smooth. If you copy and paste the trim value change to your 3D VE table you'll see it become random with hills and pits. This is where you need to visually and theoretically make a judgment whether to increase or decrease these values by hand (literally left clicking at the peak or pit on the 3d map and moving up or down with the mouse). You'll also have instances where you'll have no data in a few cells or when transitioning to open loop. This is again where you need to make predictive adjustment based on surrounding cells. For the transition to open loop mode where trims shut off, you can predict how much to change by looking at the rate of increase in both directions on the graph.
Anyone that knows anything about engines would agree that volumetric efficiency (airflow) is a somewhat gradual and predictable change with both rpm and map. And so a ve table that has quick individual peaks and pits is not a correct model of what is physically happening. Same with the point on the ve table where you would transition from open loop to closed loop, you should not see a significant or obvious shift in value rate change, it should continue to be gradual and somewhat predictable no matter what mode you are in. As you get exposed to VE tables more, you'll start to see how a cam or intake swap will change the way the engine breathes, thus changing the VE profile.

One thing to note: A "Trim cell" will cover a group of individual Map VS rpm cells. And so it would be normal for every cell in that group to be the same trim value if you hit them all real quick. So then what you are recording is how each Map VS RPM cell is changing the overall "trim cell" for that group. If you search fuel trims in the help menu, it will give you a picture of what i'm explaining. It's not crucial to understand, but it'll help keep you from getting frustrated in some instances where one cell in the group will create a trim that will get recorded onto a cell that is actually fine, and vice versa.

[jaysonpeyton]

ok after i have started tuning with ltft and stft. i was searching around trying to understand things and came across another write up that sounds basically the same just wrote a little different. its a little more understanable to me anyways. but it says i should disable torque management before tuning with ltft. My question is can i do that after my first log or should i just start over or what. i posted the site also to se if you all think its one i should follow. thank you so much for the help .http://ls1.com/forums/f9/tuning-guid...ptuners-46733/

[Ranger6202]

I don't see a reason to disable torque management at all when tuning using your LTFT's. The only 2 reasons i remove torque management are #1: don't want it in the first place, #2: when tuning my spark tables. Other than that, it should have no effect on your fuel table tuning.
You may want to disable it during WOT, but not necessarily. You can still tune your fueling with it on.

There's a pretty good write-up that will get you started under Help in the editor. Click on HELP and then: Working with VCM editor>Tuning How to section>User Submitted>Speed density
There are a few things in that procedure you don't have to do, but i would recommend everyone that is tuning for their first time to do all of it. As you learn more, you'll learn ways to setup your scanner to filter stuff rather than having to change the calibration in some of those steps. One step i wouldn't do is unplug my MAF. I'm sure you know how to fail your maf without unplugging it if you have been reading around. If not, ask, lots of peeps know. In some instances a MAF won't fail and you have to pull the plug, but you have to get an IAT in there somewhere, or you'll be tuning in circles.

[jaysonpeyton]

Alright back at it finally could afford the wideband. Cant wait to hook it up and get started for real this time i got an AFX 500 V2 . A