2013 LS3 big time bogging on Launch - Throttle cut & large Timing Retard issue

[dreksnot]

2013 Camaro LS3 with twin turbos, ID1000's, LPE twin fuel and 3.73, tuned for E85 running 11# boost.

When at the 1/4-mile strip, I bring the RPM's up to 4,000-5,000 and quickly release the clutch. RPM's and timing drop like a rock and car bogs off the line in an drunken sailor/pirate manner. Looks like it's happening during my shifts too. Thought I disabled all/most of the Torque Management settings that would effect.

It appears to me that some Timing Retard or ETC effect is trying to protect components - what am I missing?

The car runs well through the gears but the starting line is crushing my dreams!!! Thank you for any suggestions and/or assistance.

[neoh2ning]

change cutoff to spark only disable ETC as a rev limiter

[dreksnot]

Seems kind of odd since I'm not near the rev limit at launch and the TPS drops from max to 35%, and timing dives from advanced to -20.0*. Seems like a fueling management and something pulling major timing, but that's why I'm asking here.

[GHuggins]

Do you have a two stage launch control setup. A lot do this to get turbos to build boost off the line and was just wondering if you had it set up for this... I've also found traction control cause problems like this. Make sure all 3 parameters are set to disabled. Sounds like traction the more I think about it.....

[dreksnot]

I haven't installed my 2-step yet - so, no it's not setup. What I do see is that something is taking over and closing the Throttle down/and Timing down. I do have all three disabled for TCS.

[07GTS]

u still have torque management on for ETC "tip in limiting" is enabled and also "max torque" each gear needs to be maxed out

[PST]

Got your Pm. The TCS settings should only come into play when TCS is on. But your not racing with it on right?

Take care of the settings mentioned by 07GTS. I'll look the tune over to see if anything else stands out.

[SultanHassanMasTuning]

under spark/advance/spark limiters
spark minimum TqMngt thats where your car is going set to your liking there.

[ElecTech]

Try zeroing or reducing burst knock retard, also.

[dreksnot]

DISABLED Tip-In Limiit Torque - check
Left ENABLED both Control Method both Spark and ECT
DISABLED Tip-In Limiting ETC Limit - check
Max'd out Torque (6,042) for Gears - check
Pressed TC button once, tried that several times, Press twice to get into Competition Mode, tried several times.

Results:
But I'm still receiving "Launch" as the Spark TgMgt Type AND FuelCut TgMgt Type, but not ETC TgMgt Type anymore while logging and it's still killing my spark advance.

I am seeing Burst Knock Retard while logging but it's small in the 2-4* range, not the negative 10-20* that the Total Advance dives to.

I haven't tried what you said yet, SultanHassanMasTuning.

Next items to adjust?

[GHuggins]

OK try this...

Engine - Fuel - DFCO - RPM limit method delay vs gear / Neutral / Put (5)
RPM Limit Accel Threshold vs Accel / Set all to (0)
RPM Limit vs Wheel Speed / Set all to your (rev limit)

[GHuggins]

Then if that doesn't work, which I'm hopeful it will, where does your car normally idle at temp wise? Just wondering because whether or not you believe it, you are engaging two step launch control due to the simple fact that your revving it with clutch engaged. Noticed down around 160 to 170ish farenheit, spark will still detune the motor...

However... Even so you shouldn't have throttle closing...

[dreksnot]

OK try this...

Engine - Fuel - DFCO - RPM limit method delay vs gear / Neutral / Put (5)
RPM Limit Accel Threshold vs Accel / Set all to (0)
RPM Limit vs Wheel Speed / Set all to your (rev limit)

I already bumped 1st and 2nd to "10"
They're all set to "0" except for 1,000 which is set to "500"
They're 5,000 and 7,000 - but I'm not getting close them them

[dreksnot]

Then if that doesn't work, which I'm hopeful it will, where does your car normally idle at temp wise? Just wondering because whether or not you believe it, you are engaging two step launch control due to the simple fact that your revving it with clutch engaged. Noticed down around 160 to 170ish farenheit, spark will still detune the motor...

However... Even so you shouldn't have throttle closing...

Stock thermostat, and idles like stock, around 186-192F

[GHuggins]

I already bumped 1st and 2nd to "10"
They're all set to "0" except for 1,000 which is set to "500"
They're 5,000 and 7,000 - but I'm not getting close them them

Can we get the latest tune please, because none of that was in your first tune. AND you shouldn't have the 500 in a "limiting" speed gain threshold. Plus don't think you would want your delay higher...

Here's a twin turbo 2010 ls3 vette tune that doesn't have your problem for comparison and a 2013 ZL1 that's using 2 step without issues... The vette tune is all but done. The ZL1 is getting driveability straighened out, so don't be surprised if you see things purposely off...

[dreksnot]

Latest tune attached. Looks like fueling is better but still get "Launch" as the FuelCut TgMgt Type popping up, but Throttle Position stays up where it should. Timing is still taking a dive.

[Road]

Where is your IAT located you might log iat temp to see if you are getting any retard from that also under spark ramp out raise the spark min and spark min tqmgt tables to @+10 see if that changes your spark retard on launch then your second task is to control spark retard from your rev limit settings looks to me like you are not swapping to the next gear fast enough good luck
Mike

[dreksnot]

Where is your IAT located you might log iat temp to see if you are getting any retard from that also under spark ramp out raise the spark min and spark min tqmgt tables to @+10 see if that changes your spark retard on launch then your second task is to control spark retard from your rev limit settings looks to me like you are not swapping to the next gear fast enough good luck
Mike

Been logging IAT, they're good (it's cool here) - not into boost at all and not getting any spark retard there.

[dreksnot]

What about disabling the Burst Knock Retard? Maybe the big inrush of air is generating an error adjustment. Can I make the Delay "0" and not bring any harm to the other Knock Retard safety factors (like real knock)?

[Road]

You can log burst knock. Burst knock does not affect knock retard it removes timing before knock happens. With your settings you should be seeing some burst knock retard but not enough to see in the minus timing. I would try setting knock retard decay rate to 7.500 and reduce fast attack 50%. The e38 ecm are aggressive on knock retarding and you are going to have be aggressive on your tune to remove it. Try the adjustment in post #17 twin turbo's going to make it a challenge good luck
Mike