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Thread: Car starts intermittantly, only runs for 2 seconds, new 3 bar os

  1. #21
    Advanced Tuner Ranger6202's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mecanicman View Post
    * Need to know if you have and codes set before trouble shooting any further.
    agreed!

  2. #22
    Tuner smokestack's Avatar
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    Since he already had a ground off. And thinks the stock tune came back......

  3. #23
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    Well, I changed those 3 MAF cells to "0". Tried to startup the car. I don't seem to be getting a MAF code. I'm also showing not ready for all 4 o2 sensors (rears are not installed). I'm assuming this could be my problem. I checked the "Eng Sens" fuse, and it looked good. I could not verify with my meter though, damn batteries were dead.


    Capture.PNG


    Quote Originally Posted by smokestack View Post
    Since he already had a ground off. And thinks the stock tune came back......
    Am I missing something?

  4. #24
    Advanced Tuner Ranger6202's Avatar
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    O2 sensors won't show ready till they're up to temp.
    Custom '85 Crew Cab Short Bed Lq4 swap
    '06 Turbo Vortec Maxx
    '87 Military K3500 LQ4 swap
    '96 K1500 lq4 swap, Howard Cam (216/224 @ .050, .551/.551, 114), Centerforce Dual Friction

  5. #25
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    So, of course my next question is.. How do I get the MAF to fail? I have "0" in those 3 cells. Anything I can do to make the MAF fail instantly?

  6. #26
    Advanced Tuner Ranger6202's Avatar
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    set fail high frequency to 0. the three settings i showed earlier should fail it instantly if it's going to fail. Which tune posted in this thread are you using?
    Last edited by Ranger6202; 05-06-2015 at 09:11 PM.
    Custom '85 Crew Cab Short Bed Lq4 swap
    '06 Turbo Vortec Maxx
    '87 Military K3500 LQ4 swap
    '96 K1500 lq4 swap, Howard Cam (216/224 @ .050, .551/.551, 114), Centerforce Dual Friction

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger6202 View Post
    set fail high frequency to 0. the three settings i showed earlier should fail it instantly if it's going to fail. Which tune posted in this thread are you using?
    I am using the same tune mechanicman provided, just with the 3 maf cells you pointed out set to '0'.

    Hopefully getting closer, I'm glad to have possibly found something. Thanks for the assistance so far.


    copied over from HPtuners maf dis.hpt

  8. #28
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Chiming in late but here goes....

    Are you absolutely sure you followed the custom OS install instructions to the tee? See the Help section under GM Operating systems for these instructions

    Set the High RPM Disable to 8000 and reenable to 7900 --- sorry, set hysteresis to 100....

    Set the entire MAF table to 10 g/sec -- some cars take a long time to fail over and this will fuel the startup while it is contemplating....

    Check the MAF 0101-0103 SES boxes just to see if you are failing over

    Thanks,

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 05-07-2015 at 01:50 PM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  9. #29
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    Thanks! I will make those changes today and give it a shot.

    I'm not seeing where the instructions are located within the forum. I just coverted from 1 bar to 3 bar following the tuning book I have. Forgot the name, but it takes you through the basics and then through a number of different case studies.

  10. #30
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ryanbgb22 View Post
    Thanks! I will make those changes today and give it a shot.

    I'm not seeing where the instructions are located within the forum. I just coverted from 1 bar to 3 bar following the tuning book I have. Forgot the name, but it takes you through the basics and then through a number of different case studies.
    Go to Help (can get there from the Editor of the Scanner) and search operating system....select GM operating systems...see below

    Ed M


    Application Procedure (GenIII V8)

    To apply the enhancement to your PCM please use the following procedure. NOTE: the procedure involves the use of the "Write Entire" process. This process is not guaranteed to be safe. Please do not attempt to write the entire VCM if you have had any trouble reading or writing the VCM in the past. If an error occurs during writing of critical operating system components and the VCM is powered down, the VCM will become unrecoverable via software methods.
    1. Start with a stock or existing tune from the PCM.
    2. Open the file in VCM Editor
    3. Select Operating System, a window will appear with choices available.
    4. Apply the relevant modification by clicking the button.
    5. When prompted, save the file under a new name something like "XYZ_2bar.bin". This is now your new "Base" file that must be used for all future tuning.
    6. The editor will automatically close the file after saving.
    7. Open the newly saved file in the editor. You should see that the operating system ID has changed from your original file.
    8. (This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) The VE table will be full of invalid data. You *must* create a valid VE table before writing the file to the PCM. It is a good idea to copy your previous VE table into the non-boost region and then copy and increase the last row of the VE table to the new boost area. It is important to start tuning on the rich side (higher numbers) and then work back to your desired AFR.
    9. Save the file in the editor, you are now ready to write to the PCM.
    10. IMPORTANT: The next step involves using the "Write Entire" option. Remember this option is not 100% recoverable on failure in some circumstances. Do NOT disconnect the battery if you have problems during this next step. Once this step is completed you can use the regular "Write VCM" function for all tuning changes.
    11. Connect to the vehicle and turn on ignition, wait 10secs.
    12. Still in VCM Editor with your file open, select Flash -> Write Entire. The process takes approximately 2-4 minutes depending on vehicle type.
    13. When the write is completed, turn off ignition and wait 30secs.
    14. Turn on ignition, wait 10secs.
    15. The PCM should display the new operating system ID. (Not available on GM 98 V8 vehicles)
    16. At this point the VCM should be now running the new operating system and you can now use the regular and safe "Write VCM" for all future tuning changes.
    17. Do not perform steps 17 and 18 if you are running 2bar on a GM 98 V8 vehicle. The SAE MAP PID has been reconfigured in the OS for your vehicle to read properly.
    18. (This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) Open VCM Scanner and connect to the vehicle. Open the Table display (Scan -> Table Display). Right-click the "Manifold Air Pressure (SAE)" PID and select "Delete". This removes the existing 1 bar PID from the table, if you don't do this the histogram will not function correctly.
    19. (This step for 1/2/3 bar Speed Density enhancements only) Right-click the "Mass Air Flow(SAE)" PID and select "Delete". This removes the existing MAF PID, if you don't do this the histogram will not function correctly.
    20. (This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) Right-click again on the table display cell and select "Insert", go to the Engine -> Airflow section and choose either the "Manifold Air Pressure - 2 bar" or "Manifold Air Pressure - 3 bar" PID, double-click to insert it into the table.
    21. (This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) Save the new scanner configuration using File -> Save Config.
    22. You are now ready to tune using your new enhanced PCM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowton View Post
    Go to Help (can get there from the Editor of the Scanner) and search operating system....select GM operating systems...see below

    Ed M


    Application Procedure (GenIII V8)

    To apply the enhancement to your PCM please use the following procedure. NOTE: the procedure involves the use of the "Write Entire" process. This process is not guaranteed to be safe. Please do not attempt to write the entire VCM if you have had any trouble reading or writing the VCM in the past. If an error occurs during writing of critical operating system components and the VCM is powered down, the VCM will become unrecoverable via software methods.
    1. Start with a stock or existing tune from the PCM.
    2. Open the file in VCM Editor
    3. Select Operating System, a window will appear with choices available.
    4. Apply the relevant modification by clicking the button.
    5. When prompted, save the file under a new name something like "XYZ_2bar.bin". This is now your new "Base" file that must be used for all future tuning.
    6. The editor will automatically close the file after saving.
    7. Open the newly saved file in the editor. You should see that the operating system ID has changed from your original file.
    8. (This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) The VE table will be full of invalid data. You *must* create a valid VE table before writing the file to the PCM. It is a good idea to copy your previous VE table into the non-boost region and then copy and increase the last row of the VE table to the new boost area. It is important to start tuning on the rich side (higher numbers) and then work back to your desired AFR.
    9. Save the file in the editor, you are now ready to write to the PCM.
    10. IMPORTANT: The next step involves using the "Write Entire" option. Remember this option is not 100% recoverable on failure in some circumstances. Do NOT disconnect the battery if you have problems during this next step. Once this step is completed you can use the regular "Write VCM" function for all tuning changes.
    11. Connect to the vehicle and turn on ignition, wait 10secs.
    12. Still in VCM Editor with your file open, select Flash -> Write Entire. The process takes approximately 2-4 minutes depending on vehicle type.
    13. When the write is completed, turn off ignition and wait 30secs.
    14. Turn on ignition, wait 10secs.
    15. The PCM should display the new operating system ID. (Not available on GM 98 V8 vehicles)
    16. At this point the VCM should be now running the new operating system and you can now use the regular and safe "Write VCM" for all future tuning changes.
    17. Do not perform steps 17 and 18 if you are running 2bar on a GM 98 V8 vehicle. The SAE MAP PID has been reconfigured in the OS for your vehicle to read properly.
    18. (This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) Open VCM Scanner and connect to the vehicle. Open the Table display (Scan -> Table Display). Right-click the "Manifold Air Pressure (SAE)" PID and select "Delete". This removes the existing 1 bar PID from the table, if you don't do this the histogram will not function correctly.
    19. (This step for 1/2/3 bar Speed Density enhancements only) Right-click the "Mass Air Flow(SAE)" PID and select "Delete". This removes the existing MAF PID, if you don't do this the histogram will not function correctly.
    20. (This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) Right-click again on the table display cell and select "Insert", go to the Engine -> Airflow section and choose either the "Manifold Air Pressure - 2 bar" or "Manifold Air Pressure - 3 bar" PID, double-click to insert it into the table.
    21. (This step for 2bar and 3bar enhancement only) Save the new scanner configuration using File -> Save Config.
    22. You are now ready to tune using your new enhanced PCM.
    Yup, that's pretty much what I followed, and what I have in the scanner also matches that.


    Made the changes, MAF still won't give a code, still won't start.

  12. #32
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    Here is the scan from about a minute of cranking.trying to start.hpl

  13. #33
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Last idea before bed :-)...set the MAF Diagnostic Max test values to all 0's and see if it sets the P0101....

    Is there a MAF installed? Can you post the current tune file as well as a log of the start sequence.

    Thanks,

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  14. #34
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    Personally I have never had any luck setting those maf settings to zero, car will not start at all like that. What fuel are you running? Is there anything done to the 5.3 you didn't mention. Have you tried feathering the throttle while cranking?

  15. #35
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    M'man, which maf settings to zero ' s are you referring to?

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
    HP Tuners Dealer- VCM Suite (free 2hr training session with purchase), credits and new Version 2.0 turtorial available
    http://www.ermperformancetuning.com
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  16. #36
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    OK, so it was time to take a step back and try to rebaseline myself. I have participated in several COS threads where the OP saifd it wasnt failing over to SD. Now I have read the HPTuners writeup in GM Operating Systems a million times and have read the word "Speed Density ONLY" about the same number of times (:-)) and just havent listened.

    That being said, I am to assume from this day forth that there is nothing to do to put this COS into SD, so all the DTC discsiions are fruitless.....

    So to that the reason it runs for 2 secs is because crank/start phase works, afterstart transition to idle works but that is where it falls apart.

    So that is how I will look at this problem and subsequent related COS issue from now on......

    Now back to your regularly scheduled program :-)

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
    HP Tuners Dealer- VCM Suite (free 2hr training session with purchase), credits and new Version 2.0 turtorial available
    http://www.ermperformancetuning.com
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ranger6202 View Post
    just converted to a 2 bar on my turbo silverado, had a similar issue. Every time i reflashed, it would take forever for the maf to fail. Would stumble and barely run for about 2-5 secs....usually dying about 5-8 times. So my question to you is.....do you get the ses for the maf right away? or is it even in right now? if no, here's a pic of what you need to change.Attachment 49937
    These settings. I did 2 tunes today and neither vehicle would start like this. Switch it to 12800, maf fail to 0, p0101/102/103 fail on first error, and zero maf table from 3500 hz on and fires right up and sets code. Difference in o/s's? Don't know, but that method has never worked for me.

  18. #38
    Advanced Tuner Ranger6202's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mowton View Post
    OK, so it was time to take a step back and try to rebaseline myself. I have participated in several COS threads where the OP saifd it wasnt failing over to SD. Now I have read the HPTuners writeup in GM Operating Systems a million times and have read the word "Speed Density ONLY" about the same number of times (:-)) and just havent listened.

    That being said, I am to assume from this day forth that there is nothing to do to put this COS into SD, so all the DTC discsiions are fruitless.....
    I'm right there with you about reading in multiple places where is said "SD only".....in which I didn't believe it either, but I went ahead and valued it since I had no experience with it. When I completed my turbo build, converted to 2 bar OS and just left my MAF plugged in but not in the air stream, it would not start for about 5-8 tries (stumble and die and sometimes just no stumble at all, just crank). Eventually it would fire off after the maf finally failed based on my maf high frequency limit set at '0'. I would then make some changes, reflash, and the failing-to-start process (stumbling) started all over. It wasn't till i found another thread:http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...-after-reflash , post 17, that I zero'd the 3 maf values in the dynamic section (MAF airmass Filt, High RPM Disable, and High RPM Hyst) that it would finally fail the maf almost instantly while cranking, in which it would fire right off.

    To prove the "SD ONLY" theory, I later installed my MAF on the suction side of my turbo, shut my VE off and it fired right up. I took it around the block, staying out of boost of course, but it worked. Pretty much proving to me the "SD only" is not true. I could still be very wrong, but those were my findings. And thus, I still think you need the DTC's to verify SD mode. I hope someone can chime in though if they have similar/dissimilar experience with the "SD ONLY " theory.
    Last edited by Ranger6202; 05-08-2015 at 06:13 PM.
    Custom '85 Crew Cab Short Bed Lq4 swap
    '06 Turbo Vortec Maxx
    '87 Military K3500 LQ4 swap
    '96 K1500 lq4 swap, Howard Cam (216/224 @ .050, .551/.551, 114), Centerforce Dual Friction

  19. #39
    Advanced Tuner Ranger6202's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mecanicman View Post
    These settings. I did 2 tunes today and neither vehicle would start like this. Switch it to 12800, maf fail to 0, p0101/102/103 fail on first error, and zero maf table from 3500 hz on and fires right up and sets code. Difference in o/s's? Don't know, but that method has never worked for me.
    I was writing my response when you posted this, so its great to already to have feedback to where this works or doesn't work. My other theory is having the MAF in the flow or just sitting with no flow. Mecanicman, on the 2 tunes you did today, are the MAF's still inline? plugged in but sitting? don't exist?

    It might be like you say, and it's an OS difference. The thread I listed as my source of this info had said it was in an '06 Silverado......mine too.
    Custom '85 Crew Cab Short Bed Lq4 swap
    '06 Turbo Vortec Maxx
    '87 Military K3500 LQ4 swap
    '96 K1500 lq4 swap, Howard Cam (216/224 @ .050, .551/.551, 114), Centerforce Dual Friction

  20. #40
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    I did one of each, one I failed the Maf to tune the VE table but maf was still there. The other had no maf at all and had Fbody iat wired in.