TBSS knock sensors on Gen3 pcm at wits end

[Dirthead Racing]

I'm trying to finish up helping a friend recover from a "professional" tune and harness setup and I'm at wits end with knock sensors. This is a jeep stand alone Gen3 harness(red/blue 0411pcm) that is now repinned for Flat response type knock sensors on an aluminum 06 TBSS engine with a cable driven throttle body and manual transmission. Not only was the "tune" garbage(like would have went boom garbage), but the harness was also all messed up. I've used bluecats program to translate all the VE tables and dialed in VE, Maf and WOT with the wideband. While tuning I never gave the knock sensors a second thought because I was getting feedback here and there while out tuning and we were able to lower timing and adjust A/F to "get rid of it". Turns out my lt blue and dk blue wires were running to the same side LS2 (TBSS) flat response style sensor. The harness was still pinned for the resonant style sensors. I found the new pinout directions for the flat response style sensors and we repinned the harness(09,10,49,50 blue side). I used the tables from an 02 S10 that someone had mentioned using the flat response style sensor and we saw know almost immediately while out driving. We no longer get the P0327 and P0332 that we were getting. My issue is that no matter what I've done, I could not get it to not max out the KR anytime we were on the throttle(8-20%TPS). Like driving like a grandma with lambda at 1.0 it was showing KR. I never logged any burst knock, we never really drove at a remote acceleration that would have brought any about. Does anyone have knock tables for TBSS knock sensors(12623730) on a Gen 3 harness for an aluminum block or a suggestion on where I should go from here? I set everything back to stock for the S10 because I made 0 headway in the 4 hours I worked on it last night. I tried maxing the Tip in TPS, Tip in RPM, vs.RPM vs. and ks global gain vs. RPM vs. Then I tried going to the min on all 4 tables. I still seen knock. I'm at a loss. I'd tell him to switch back to the resonant style sensors and put them on the outside of the block but I don't know where I would get tables for those on an aluminum block either. I'm completely at a loss guys. What am I doing wrong?

Attached below is what I plan to start with again when I get back to it. Where do I go from here?

[Dirthead Racing]

Back to the top for the weekday crew. I'm open to suggestions!

[Dirthead Racing]

http://delphi.com/manufacturers/auto...response-knock

So reading this, then reading the help menu in HP tuners, when I maxxed out all 4 tables I should not have been able to get any KR. This is very confusing to me.

[Dirthead Racing]

Found 03 SSR used an aluminum 5.3, but resonant style sensors. I don't see any aluminum 6.0 that used a resonant style sensor at all so I don't think having it switched back over is going to gain me anything for tables. What really bothers me is why I wasn't able to override it, then bring it back 1 table at a time to see where to start from. I've been looking and reading all day but I'm not coming up with much.

[Dirthead Racing]

Comparing 03SSR 5.3(alum) to 04SSR 5.3(alum), no differences in KS settings. Compared 03 and 02 iron block 5.3 to each other, no differences in KS settings. Compare 03SSR alum 5.3 to 03 iron 5.3 and the knock sensor settings are the same. So I'm going to have the owner install resonant style KS in the side of the alum 6.0 block, re-pin the harness to the original gen 3 configuration and use the tables from the iron block 6.0. Not getting any help or suggestions so I guess I'm just documenting it for my own sake at this point.

[Howes]

good luck. it is harder to unhack something than it is to either fix or hack it.

[Ranger6202]

have you tried running it with the sensors unplugged? I know you get a set value KR, but it shouldn't change up or down after that, i believe its fixed when you open the circuit (considers it a KS fail), but i don't know for sure. I'm guessing the two different style sensors have a different output scaling or circuit designation altogether (based on ecm, possibly either resistive or hall effect type). In which we don't have access to rescale or change the input value to what we want. We can only change how it reacts to the signal......Just a theory.

[Ranger6202]

Well, i feel like an idiot. I've never had to read much or care much about Knock Sensors before, till i decided take on helping you. And so i've read more about them and now realize i was way off on my theory of what type of knock sensors there are. I did learn about the differences between the two in the frequency ranges they output. Which brings back my comment to specific ECM settings, for instance a certain range of frequency rather than "any" frequency.
http://forums.holley.com/showthread....ors-Holley-EFI
I know that is a holley setup, but it gives great info about the two sensors. From what i've read, it seems that you need the resonant style sensor with the gen III ECM.
I hope this post was more help than my first one

[Dirthead Racing]

What I don't understand is why the gen 4 06 TBSS alum 6.0 KS tables and the Iron block 6.0 08 silverado KS settings are so far apart when the 04 SSR alum 5.3 and the 03 Silverado iron 5.3 are identical. It doesn't make sense to me. That is great reading though, thanks for the link. I haven't found anything in the scanner that will let me monitor the KS output real time, just log the KR that's pulled. I wonder if I can hook it to my I/O port to monitor the actual mV output of the sensor and get any insight? Unfortunately the Jeep is 300 miles away and I only get out to help the guy every other month or so. Everything is so close to being done now I just want to get over this hump. Anyone know of a way to setup a custom pid to get the sensor output logged? Maybe that'll give me some insight. I'm having him change over to the resonant style sensor on my assumption that I can use the iron block 6.0 tables and adjust the Global Gain table KSlevel vs RPM vs Cylinder table if I see KR during steady throttle driving. I really appreciate you putting in the time to try and help.

[Ranger6202]

what's the news? Did the sensor swap help?

[Dirthead Racing]

what's the news? Did the sensor swap help?

We haven't gotten the sensors swapped. I won't be able to even look at it until June/July. Disappointing to say the least.