Something is fishy. Just talked to him through pm and he's seeing 2psi at idle and high boost (29?) part throttle. Never heard of that. If thats true, my three guesses:
1. Someone adjusted the wg rod nut too much on purpose way back when for boost
2. Someone adjusted the rod nut too much accidentally when reassembling
3. Wg is jammed shut (my guess)
What else causes boost at idle and part throttle 29psi?
check the line for the oldschool boost pill. before we had enough access we would install modified mig welder tips in the wg line to help spool up times. obviously now its not required but someone could have used it still.
boost lo res will show boost but you have to subtract baro to correct it to a true value. you cant look at boost lo res all by itself.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
Which barometric pid, 51 or 2340?Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
I do boost low res but he wasn't logging it or it didn't show in my main table when i dl'd his tune. CCSOB, can you post link to pill mod for him? I totally forgot about that. I've only read about that workaround.
I show his boost low res at 98kpa at idle and a max of 262kpa. Not sure where he's seeing 2psi at idle unless he's looking at the max value in the histogram.
I think you're onto something with the wastegate Bill. Too much preload could be a cause of the boost he is seeing at light throttle and it's easy enough to adjust in just a few minutes to rule it out by removing the two bolts (10mm socket) holding the heat shield and then loosening the two nuts (two 10mm wrenches) on the wastegate actuator rod. One full turn of the nut equals 1mm of preload and if he backed it out 2 or 3mm, it should make a difference.
I'm not familiar with the pill mod but at my age, I'm sure I will be introduced to many pill mods soon.
It's where you put that pill that matters most. =O
Pill mod was old school way of building boost without using the ecu. The ecu was smart enough that it wasn't having none of that. I forgot what stock rod and nut lengths should be.
Unfortunately BYT and the other legends of 2009 removed the threads once all the turbocharger tables became accessible. The idea behind it is to make the boost source travel through a significantly smaller orifice thus limiting the time it takes to achieve full boost source value in the canister. The pill disrupts the equilibrium between the compressor housing boost source and the wastegate actuator. By doing this you get an offset or Delta Δ; high boost value at compressor but low at actuator which hold the wastegate closed when it normally would be open and that's why the pill caused a boost rise.
here is basically what it is though:
Find a mig welder tip one of each size .045/.035/.030 and die grind / file off the threads so its smooth on both sides.
starting with the largest one first install it in the line going into the wastegate actuator. (you will need extra line to prevent cutting the factory one.)
without changing from factory dals do a test run and see where the boost lands, make immediate adjustments if it creeps towards 23psi (2.5 bar sensor were still in use so had to stay under 23.5psi to make sure you were seeing true boost values.) if its not responsive enough step down one size and lower dal tables some to prevent initial setup overboosting.
Bam that's all there was to it! only problem was that this ecu is trq command and receive based; you give it a trq model to hit and if it exceeds it then it turns the power down lol. so without having all the turbo settings in hand, in 2009, we didn't have a way to modify that leg of the trq model and thus the ecu would turn the boost back down over a period of time as its learning process collected data. once the controls came into play around mid 2010 the pill wasn't needed as programming the turbo setting was far less stressful on the ecu files than the pill insert.
boost pid is (boost lo res - baro(pid.51)) monitor in psi or kpa whichever is easier for you to understand.
If you run the pill mod with the current access we have to this ecu I will reach through the interwebs and dish out an a$$whooping! there is absolutely, I repeat ABSOLUTELY no reason to use a boost pill.
If you ignore me then in bill engvalls words "HERES YOUR SIGN", you failed at understanding the Ecotec DI Computer and deserve everything that happens to your setup.
Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 05-19-2015 at 11:39 AM.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
I do remember reading about that now. No need to be on the pill today.
this isn't the lnf but its how most install them. I installed mine right before the wg actuator port to let the solenoid see full signal.
2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman
I remember running the pill for a few days, it was nuts, the rear end would squat once you mashed the throttle.
Haven't been able to duplicate that with software, probably for good reason, boost response was instantaneous.
Instatorque. The way I have mine tuned now I could best describe as the Superman ride at theme parks. Smooth but keeps sucking you back into the seat.
While I'd like to be able to answer Mike's challenge, I don't know that I currently have the skills that most of you probably have. While I do know that I can effectively manipulate my timing with MS, OS and OT tables, I am not positive that these 3 tables alone are what is causing the ridiculously low timing shown in the logs posted here. I have never seen a log of a stock LNF on a Kappa platform so I have no idea what timing looks like on a log of one but after looking at the "race tune" posted at the beginning of this thread, I find it hard to believe that someone had to spend $400 to get it.
Compared to a stock LNF Kappa tune, the MS tables are pretty much stock with the exception of the last column and a couple cells in the upper rpm range. The OS tables are completely stock. Kinda reminds me of the tune I paid for from my 1st tuner. Only after working on my tune with the 2nd tuner did I realize that the majority of what I paid for could have been had for free had I known that all I really needed to do was to download the GMPP tune from the repository and tweak it to my liking to eliminate any KR by reducing MS.
While I would like to be able to say that I have a firm grip on tuning every aspect of every table of this platform, I cannot. I can say that I have the "basic" knowledge of what "I" can adjust while keeping things safe and keeping me happy. Logs go a long way in knowing what works and what doesn't. I would love to learn more but have way too much life in the way at the moment and don't know when things will really settle down for me as the hits just keep on coming. Someday I would like to be able to help others as you all are helping here.
Last edited by JimmyS; 05-19-2015 at 11:44 PM.
Some how I believe it has something to do with Torque being higher than commanded. One table fighting another. I can see everything is raised but the OS table, with as much air flow that has been requested, the PCM is looking to see if its giving what it should be and is looking at the OS table and the OS table shows that way less torque should be made so the only thing that can happen is for reduction of timing. Also being that the MS table has been raised and the OS table hasn't been raised to match adds to the problem. I don't know if I'm right by what I have said, but I do know that I have had a lot of trouble getting my timing to follow what I have requested until I read Bill's thread on how to adjust the OP table. It help me make so much sense of what was going on with this table. (Sorry Mike I know you said no guessing) but I didn't see anyone else brave enough, so let the rookie take the beating. LOL So much to learn. I have a feeling there may be more to this, but I have to believe I cant be all wrong. Give it to me Mike. lol
LOL (I guessed) I think you meant mind. hehe
Last edited by powermizer; 05-20-2015 at 02:09 PM.
This thread has turned a bad situation into a great info sharing opportunity. An LS is really kindergarten tuning compared to this ecu (and GM's version now that they learned from Bosch).
I don't expect people to take my approach. I tried to do the learning for others because I wasn't satisfied with what had been understood and learned so far. I built off of all the others before me and then started experimenting. That's the engineer in me. That also led to a couple WOT at idle moments and power reduction modes in the middle of the freeway (and cruise control thanks to MikeM). That taught me the safe limits of tables and a lot of info which has been shared on here. Even so, it took me months of reading just to understand what was going on with the LNF. Then, I logged for a month. THEN, I tuned and experimented at 9psi. 45 ah hah moments later I got to here.
Once you have an understanding of tuning this engine, I would still take another step. Do you drag or do you road race? Different boost ramp and tables (dal, pid's for ex) for both. The k04 will ramp up from 0-20psi in a max of .458 sec. That is the LAST thing you want unless you're drag racing. Sometimes finesse is more important than brute force.
Back to the MikeM trivia question.
Ok mike, its time to give it up!!!! Doesn't seem that if anyone else knows they want to give it away. This LNF tuning has been one of the most frustrating things i have tried to accomplish yet is so rewarding, even if I have to ride the coattails of others. I am not the fastest learner and I too have a busy life. I just need to say thanks to all those that have given so much info on this subject to help me and others. (mainly me). lol Its hard to believe that you guys can and are getting paid to tune yet still come here and give a helping hand to those who want to learn on there own. Good on all of you!!!!
Honestly, term should step back and stick to LSJ/e67 tuning - albeit i havent seen any LSJ logs from concerned individuals. I have never seen such garbage, both himself and Rakes tunes are WAY too linear and both cause a nice heap of midrange kr with no ramp and ALWAYS blame it on shitty fuel or mechanical issues or sluff it off and claim 'welp, midrange knock is common so dont worry about it!' and the latest from Term is blaming a computer virus for his latest big turbo fuckups I have fixed with a completely different set of maps. This is a telltale sign to stop fuqqin with things you have no idea about what youre touching. Some of the tables that were mucked with controlling rail pressure and homogeneous settings were out to lunch. So no schite the tune has rail pressure issues and more knock than a jw door. Up to 8* across the whole map. Funny part is, in the beginning of a brand new install he told his customer to upload the base tune he sent and go wot right away. Like what the hell? Go take some tuning courses before you blow more people up. Thanks.
Ps: I will be providing both of your former customers with open paypal disputes with detailed documentation if need be. So it may be within your best interest to refund their money as requested. We are all very lucky they had me re tune them before they blew up.
I've asked for my money back but he said it was "mechanical" problem, which it wasn't, so I don't think he will return my money. That's too bad, beside having his mistake cost me thousands of $, he doesn't have the integrity to return my money for a service I never will use and was "defective". He required me to use Western Union to pay him - which I had done PayPal now and then I could get my money back from PayPal. I was just hoping he would say he was sorry and return my money. Maybe someday he will wake up and really want the "Need to Clear his Conscience About This". Sometimes the lessons in life are expensive - this one was.
True, i don't come here for help, and my reason for today was one of the guys with the tune I fixed had directed me to this page. His ordeal has been going on for months now, and was solved within 24 hours of our first contact through tuning. My issue is people like Term charging 350-400USD for tuning that grenades cars, and all of their excuses. My answer to that is: go take some tuning courses. Learn DI and how it works and how to tune it properly. I am sorry, i didn't read the heap of pages where someone already called him on his crap, after all I have dealt with regarding terminator, I got to say my piece. Sorry if it offended you mike. Cant exactly contact the guy or girl on facebook, Brittany or whoever their shady email identity should be enough to raise concern with potential customers. Again, i didnt mean to offend you or ruffle your feathers Mike.
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