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Thread: ghost cam tune with beta?

  1. #1
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    ghost cam tune with beta?

    Has anyone figured how to do a ghost cam tune with the beta version
    I can do it with the 2.24 version but not with 2.25
    Any hints?
    Thanks
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    vehicle?
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  3. #3
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    I didn't know it was vehicle specific. :/
    I want to do it on a 15 chevy malibu
    stock 2.5L

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    I just asked to see if it was a vehicle i had tried it on before.

    all you should have to do is adjust the idle camshaft position. in some cars there are only one table for each cam, others have a designated idle circuit table and then a off idle table.
    i dont have the beta version so i cannot see anything in the file from the repository.
    On that note here are two examples for you. 1) on the left side is an opel astra ecu. Its cam tables are separated into to 4 tables. 3 barometric pressure sensor related tables, which for the majority of tuning purposes are set the same as each other, includes the idle portion of camshaft control. The 4th is wot only table and is in its own field of operation. 2) on the right side is an lnf cam table. It has 2 tables specifically for the idle circuit hot and cold operations, we set them the same as each other for tuning. Then off idle has its own tables for warm and cold operation as well.
    So you have to find out which way your tables are listed in the vcm suite so you can adjust the correct table for idle. As a warning, I will tell you from doing this to the 2.0, 2.2, and 2.4, these motors run very rough when you lope them out at idle and it frequently throws check engine lights for multiple cylinder misfires due to the crank not spinning smooth enough to meet the crank sensors oscillation requirement. You may find this to be true in your 2.5. If you dont have enough table plots to keep a smooth shift going on during driving conditions then the system can actually shift the cams so fast that they end up slamming the valves closed mid cam shift due to cam rotation exceeding spring following rate. i have severely smashed a set of lnf valves trying this on my own setup. the valve job didn't last more than 4k miles and i used ferrea valves with ferrea recommended durabond valve seats so its wasn't a parts issue. i turned that option off after talking to my machinist and verifying other vvt motors having similar issues and the valve damage i was experiencing never came back.
    it is up to you to test the limits of your system, hope you dont have the same issues we have on the older motors.

    i believe i made this video for the lnf in late 2011...when i ran full dp i couldn't get a clear audio signal and by the time i got better audio gear i had already replaced the head and disabled what progress i made on this as to not incur more damage. when i drove it, it was always in modified limp home mode, check engine light never stayed off after starting it for the first times post flash. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zWXFKYKS0jw
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  5. #5
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    lol I thought a ghost cam tune was only for some cars
    I hope direct injection is a bit more lenient. I have been messing with the Intake and Exhaust angles, but no major difference.
    I'll continue to tune and log
    It might be easier to put a new cam in it, but I dont want to lose the reason I bought the car (MPG)
    BTW I bought HPT and started tuning about a year ago, and i have to admit your links and videos to tuning really helped me alot
    Thanks alot David
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  6. #6
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    Just asking what if.
    what if I only change the cams angle from 200 RPM's to 1000 RPM's
    and the airflow to match
    So to avoid the valves slapping?
    BTW I have a E39A controller, so more options
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    You get a steep wall from the 1000 rpm cell to the next highest rpm and that's where I was slapping valves.

    In the lnf and ldk since they are mechanically similar, I try to keep the shifts between cells under 10. The smoothing features help a lot then I go back and touch up by hand. Sometimes you can't make two cells shift smooth enough but I believe your tables are much larger than ours so it shouldn't be a problem To smooth them evenly.

    I had to shift cams to like -30 Intake and 28 exhaust so I had them overlapped almost to the max physical travel.

    Hopefully you have good results. I'd like 4 cylinders to have the ability to sound mean then just get mpg and do all the work on the top end like the 5.0 coyote

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    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    I just bought an electric exaust cut out so hopefully I can tune it into the engine And get the agressive sound
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  9. #9
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    I just bought an electric exaust cut out so hopefully I can tune it into the engine And get the agressive sound
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  10. #10
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    I just bought an electric exaust cut out so hopefully I can tune it into the engine And get that agressive sound
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  11. #11
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    it will make it so you can get more aggressive sound with less cam movement. lowers the valvetrain stress.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  12. #12
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    I'v been trying to mess with the cam angle positions and it wont let me retard the angle
    So can I set intake at 0 and advance the exhaust?

    set the min position to -* and the low temp position to -*, but no difference

    I was thinking setting Intake to 0* and exhaust to 20* and retarding timing a bit to reduce cyl pressure
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    Normally these are set as the higher intake numbers being more advance. And the higher exhaust being more retard. That will net you overlap going that way.
    Are you saying when you changed a value and the cams didn't change at all?

  14. #14
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    yes and the intake and exhaust are only 2-4* advance at idle
    so I have it backwards? intake at 20* and exhaust at 0*
    I change the values to -10* or -6* it will change to a 0*
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    ill have to look at my astra ecu again when i get home.
    when you run the mouse over the cam table button, the bottom right corner of the engine window should tell you the limits of the table you are hovering over. to get an idea of which way to go, the cam values at the midrange cruise will be set for overlap usually. moving the values in that direction should shift your cams. if they stay at zero again there may be a separate table interfering that we would need to find.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  16. #16
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    0 to 32* on all tables

    now im thinking its a beta thing
    the only negative table is on the cold start mode so I might just change that and increase the enable/disable RPM's so it only works at idle
    Last edited by david78; 03-29-2015 at 11:54 AM.
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    beta isn't normally that sensitive but if you try everything and it doesn't function you will have to send an error report to the tech department.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  18. #18
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    i dont see any limiter tables that would force a no shift result in the editor. as long as the low/med/high Baro cam tables match each other on each cam then there should be no reason it wouldn't shift.
    i requested beta software so i could look into the file stored in the tune repository but i think your is the same layout as my astra file.
    I would double check the scanner pids/sensors you are looking at for the camshafts before filing a technical report. i believe you have to view the ones with (SAE) after them for cams. View Camshaft commanded positions and actual positions.

    the cam phaser's have a physical travel limit that is usually hit before the highest values on the phaser control tables. 0 would be camshaft park with both cams sitting at full separation and 32/32 full overlap but i bet if you keep turning it up you will notice the phaser actual position stops moving before that....thats the mechanical stop value.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  19. #19
    Tuner in Training david78's Avatar
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    Sorry for the late response
    I sent an error report to HPT engineer about a week ago maybe 2
    If I make a change to the camshaft angle and flash it to the ECU the PID's in my log do not change they stay the same i've changed every table and have gone up to 26* in advance
    25/25
    6+3 = 9 but so does 5+4. The way you do things isn't always the only way to do them. Respect other people’s way of thinking

  20. #20
    I tried this on my 2.2 lap G5 and got it to sound pretty good. Nothing to crazy so shifting the cams when cruising is pretty smooth. I set the the intake 1 degree or about the same as cruising and the exhaust is about 5 degrees more retard than cruising and has a smooth transition. Didn't have it on for too long just while I was testing it so can't say there is anything that can get damaged. Fun to have people thinking it's cammed lol