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Thread: My first crack at small cam tune on 2008 silverado, All input welcome.

  1. #1

    My first crack at small cam tune on 2008 silverado, All input welcome.

    Gentlemen,
    This is my first attempt on a non factory cam engine outside of the LS1/LS6 era. Truck is very responsive, drives really well around town with good clean acceleration (only playing with part throttle) but I feel like it is laboring around 2000-2400 rpm when using light acceleration up small inclines. (60%ish throttle) Would somebody please take a look at my Highway scan and see if anything pops out.

    I have yet to dial in VE because honestly, I'm a little intimidated and was also unable to get a copy of BlueCats handy work to make it easier on us mortals.



    Details
    2008 Silverado 4wd w/33" tires
    LY5 5.3 w/243 heads basically stock besides springs/rockers
    Small little custom grind EPS cam 218/222 on a 113 w/ cam set at 6* advanced to help with torque
    Doug Thorley Tri-Y's
    Attached Files Attached Files
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  2. #2
    Jeez... I don't know how I missed the V4 of Bluecats software. I will start messing with VE tuning now.
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  3. #3
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm_n_p View Post
    Jeez... I don't know how I missed the V4 of Bluecats software. I will start messing with VE tuning now.
    I did a write-up on this forum a while ago on the BlueCat software.....don't know if it will help but here it is.

    Ed M

    Quick tutorial on BlueCat.doc
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by mowton View Post
    I did a write-up on this forum a while ago on the BlueCat software.....don't know if it will help but here it is.

    Ed M

    Quick tutorial on BlueCat.doc
    Excellent, somehow I managed to figure it out...2 questions.

    1. I noticed that you mentioned to use AFR error, I am tuning part throttle and closed loop using narrow band. This method will work as well wont it?
    2. When doing second scan and making further changes, do I go through the whole process again of copying maps and creating a new VE table or can I just modify my last modified VE table since it is still saved and simply create another set of equations.
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  5. #5
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm_n_p View Post
    Excellent, somehow I managed to figure it out...2 questions.

    1. I noticed that you mentioned to use AFR error, I am tuning part throttle and closed loop using narrow band. This method will work as well wont it?
    2. When doing second scan and making further changes, do I go through the whole process again of copying maps and creating a new VE table or can I just modify my last modified VE table since it is still saved and simply create another set of equations.
    1) Yes, either method will develop a percentage of error for that particular cell and is used to modify previous value by that error.
    2) Good question, I would think not. As long as the VE table is saved with the last updates, then it can be recalled for the next round of adjustments.

    One other must is to unclick auto zone boundaries mode especially when doing FI applications where you exceed the 105 kPa map levels

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  6. #6
    Currently on the road and VE tune at stoich is done and made this a completely different truck. One thing I will say is that I had no luck remodifying saved VE table, tune went to hell quick. I simply regenerated a new VE table from saved equations and had good luck (maybe I was doing something wrong). Moving back to re calibrating the MAF now to see how much things changed.

    Thanks a bunch Motown for your time.

  7. #7
    well, I got a random "TCM was not found, flash file requires TCM...." message on last calibration write and now my trans only has 2nd/3rd and reverse no speedometer etc etc. sounds like limp mode... any suggestions?
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  8. #8
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm_n_p View Post
    well, I got a random "TCM was not found, flash file requires TCM...." message on last calibration write and now my trans only has 2nd/3rd and reverse no speedometer etc etc. sounds like limp mode... any suggestions?
    So I am assuming you tried it several times and couldn't get it to flash without the error message? Did you try a write entire? Any codes?

    Try disconnecting battery for a couple of minutes and start over.

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 02-06-2015 at 07:23 AM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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    Quote Originally Posted by mm_n_p View Post
    well, I got a random "TCM was not found, flash file requires TCM...." message on last calibration write and now my trans only has 2nd/3rd and reverse no speedometer etc etc. sounds like limp mode... any suggestions?
    Anytime I get that I just hit "Begin" again without touching anything and it works fine. Don't cycle the key or anything. It's like the TCM hasn't woken up yet. It's strange, but I've never had a TCM issue from it.
    Jaime

  10. #10
    I'm pretty sure it's toast. Left battery off all night. Get same error on write entire and when I read I get no transmission parameters. If I get new TCM will I need tech 2 or will it marry up to ECU on its own.

    What's irritating is I just started enjoying driving this damn thing😔

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm_n_p View Post
    I'm pretty sure it's toast. Left battery off all night. Get same error on write entire and when I read I get no transmission parameters. If I get new TCM will I need tech 2 or will it marry up to ECU on its own.

    What's irritating is I just started enjoying driving this damn thing
    Have you tried contacting Support?
    Jaime

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm_n_p View Post
    I'm pretty sure it's toast. Left battery off all night. Get same error on write entire and when I read I get no transmission parameters. If I get new TCM will I need tech 2 or will it marry up to ECU on its own.

    What's irritating is I just started enjoying driving this damn thing��
    A project is always filled with bumps in the road. When you think you are just about to get to the end.......WAM, some new BS pops up. I guess that is why we love this so much........not!

    Hang in there, it will be done soon. We once had a project truck dropped off to us for "a quick tune" that took us the better part of a year to get straightened out and tuned. It was what we called a Frankentruck...every different part from every year all integrated (or not) together.

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
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  13. #13
    $150 later with a brand new TCM and I'm back up and running👍

  14. #14
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm_n_p View Post
    $150 later with a brand new TCM and I'm back up and running��
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
    HP Tuners Dealer- VCM Suite (free 2hr training session with purchase), credits and new Version 2.0 turtorial available
    http://www.ermperformancetuning.com
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    [email protected]

  15. #15
    Update: the truck runs much better after dialing in VE but it's still laboring at cruise 1800-2500 rpm's. It acts like its begging for timing and responds very well up until it's detonating. It's actually so responsive to timing that I can actually tell when it detonates by how sluggish it feels in the seat of my pants at cruise. (Slight load up hills and even a good head wind will reduce speed) VE tune is very accurate, and I have ran through it a couple times after major timing adjustments when trying to troubleshoot. MAF is spot on but it does it wether I'm using MAF or Not. I'm not asking for somebody to fix my tune, just some pointers to help get me going in the right direction.

  16. #16
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    That truck has been to me, then Ed Wright, then Bo Woody then Geoff at EPS, then back to me. The truck ran fine the last time I data logged it back in Feb, 2014. You are at least tuner #5 that truck has been to. Mr Nance is never happy with it and always thinks it is the tune. Here is a hint. Look at the MAP when you are lightly accelerating from 70mph. It is laboring. I have logs of the truck doing the same thing in 3rd gear at 40mph and 4th gear at 50 and 60 mph. The truck needs gears. Some 4.56's would solve a lot of the complaints Mr Nance has with his truck. Pretty sure I told him that a year ago. And the problem you had with the TCM is probably an old version of 2.24 that wouldn't recover TCMs. It was fixed in later versions. And used ones can be had around here for about $40. I had to replace one on a 08 in Apr 2014 after a failed write that was recovered with a HP Tuners update.
    Last edited by 2xLS1; 02-08-2015 at 06:42 PM.

  17. #17
    I agree it needs gears... And I know it's laboring but wanted to exhaust all options before writing it off as nature of the beast. I have tuned small cammed 5.3's on older ECU's and have yet to experience this degree of drivability issues and was just wondering if I was missing something in the E38's since I'm not as familiar with them. Thanks for the input and it seems to fall right in line with what I was leaning towards anyway

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by mm_n_p View Post

    Details
    2008 Silverado 4wd w/33" tires
    LY5 5.3 w/243 heads basically stock besides springs/rockers
    Small little custom grind EPS cam 218/222 on a 113 w/ cam set at 6* advanced to help with torque
    Doug Thorley Tri-Y's
    I'm probably sticking my nose where it doesn't belong here, but I really have to lean towards and agree with the previously stated gearing as being the solution on this one. 33's are some pretty big power robbing sized tires, especially when you throw OD and hills and headwinds into the equation out on the highway with lower engine rpm's... The cam in this thing doesn't appear that aggresive. About the only thing I can question is whether or not the injection timing has been dialed in and since it's been to this many different tuners, I assume it has been tackled already? The only time I have ever seen anything like this on a stock vehicle setup is where a very aggresize cam was used and even after getting injection timing pretty well dialed in, I still had to set stoich down to 13.8 or so then remap MAF, VE and ignition timing to correspond to get rid of all of my cruise "bucking" and laboring and that was only because of the serious overlap the car had. Once that was done, it was a whole new motor and got better fuel economy and power than it did once it had come from the other "really" big named tuning shop, but as previously stated this thing doesn't have that big of a cam and shouldn't be that bad to tune for. I would be looking at gearing like 2xLS1 pointed out on this one.

    Hope this helped some. Like I said, probably sticking my nose where it didn't belong here.
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

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  19. #19
    Sticking nose in? No... I appreciate all input

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    I'm probably sticking my nose where it doesn't belong here, but I really have to lean towards and agree with the previously stated gearing as being the solution on this one. 33's are some pretty big power robbing sized tires, especially when you throw OD and hills and headwinds into the equation out on the highway with lower engine rpm's... The cam in this thing doesn't appear that aggresive. About the only thing I can question is whether or not the injection timing has been dialed in and since it's been to this many different tuners, I assume it has been tackled already? The only time I have ever seen anything like this on a stock vehicle setup is where a very aggresize cam was used and even after getting injection timing pretty well dialed in, I still had to set stoich down to 13.8 or so then remap MAF, VE and ignition timing to correspond to get rid of all of my cruise "bucking" and laboring and that was only because of the serious overlap the car had. Once that was done, it was a whole new motor and got better fuel economy and power than it did once it had come from the other "really" big named tuning shop, but as previously stated this thing doesn't have that big of a cam and shouldn't be that bad to tune for. I would be looking at gearing like 2xLS1 pointed out on this one.

    Hope this helped some. Like I said, probably sticking my nose where it didn't belong here.
    You know what...You got me thinking, I normally wouldn't even look at injector timing on a cam of this size but with it being a little bigger and with an advance of 6*, I may be able to make a slight improvement in torque by bringing the boundaries back a little bit in the rpm areas giving issue. Its certainly worth a try anyway.

    I'll tackle that tomorrow evening and report back with results.
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