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Thread: Cold Start Issues

  1. #1

    Cold Start Issues

    So I have the car driving well and starting when warm with no issue. The issue is cold starts. It's a bitch to turn it over and fire when it's actually cold outside (like 50 degrees here...)

    My IAC counts appear to be in the 40-50 range with the NW 102 and the TPS voltage set at .57V. It doesn't really seem to help much. Though, I played with it today and don't know how much of a difference it makes vs the .55V I had in there when it was cold (and wouldn't start).

    Anyway, it seems like it just doesn't get enough air when cold. I have messed with the Startup VE table to make it match close to my primary VE table (which still needs some work - but I have been logging with the wideband at lower RPM).

    I did add some idle startup friction airflow. I added 7.5g across the board, because why the hell not. I've also added something like 3 to 5g of startup airflow by ECT. I've had it there and it didn't matter.

    One thing it's doing now after adding all that airflow (I didn't drive it around today) was in Park with revs, it is very much lagged now. With my wideband I've got it idling pretty well when warm. So I think the A/F is pretty close at idle and off-idle. It wasn't doing this yesterday after driving it around (before I added all the airflow described above). I had the TB open at .51V and it seemed to do okay. I wonder if the throttle cable is a little loose now with it being open another quarter turn to half turn?

    Anyway, here are the logs. First is of the RussK idle config with it at .55V. I saw I needed more opening of the throttle blade. And opened it to .59V, but it seems engine vacuum pulled it back down to .57V and it settled there. The second is the same config but with me free revving it and it looking like dog shit (which is more concerning - either not enough fuel or something else like the throttle cable loose).

    Tune is also uploaded. I'm guessing adding all the additional airflow is making it unhappy. I plan to retune with the wideband tomorrow after messing around with all the airflow parameters and to check the throttle cable.

    Any other suggestions?

    Mods:

    02 Trans Am
    EPS 234/242 111+3 Cam
    TEA Stage 2 LS6 Heads
    FAST 102 Manifold and NW 102 TB
    TSP 100mm MAF with the LS3 Cartridge (disabled - only using the IAT)
    Kooks 1-7/8" LT Headers and 3" True Duals
    Bosch EV14 52lbs Injectors with data from FIC
    Racetronix Pump & new WIX Fuel Filter
    FLT Level 6 4L60E
    CircleD 2E 4200 Stall Converter
    BeCool Aluminum Radiator with 160 T-Stat
    New Delphi MAP relocated to front of FAST
    New IAC Motor
    OLSD Tune at present
    Attached Files Attached Files

  2. #2
    I will log with the wideband tomorrow.

    But I wonder why the lag is there. I had this issue before when I idle tuned the VE table. I did it by MAP pressure and sound, leaning out the table. Once I leaned it out to about what you see in the above, it had no throttle response - like it was starved for fuel. So I added some fuel back in.

    However, I logged with my wideband yesterday and it told me to take out counts of between 3-6 in the idle areas. So I did. It ran fine and idled no problem. But today, trying to diagnose the cold start issue, the "feels like it has no fuel" thing came back at idle.

    I'm so very close to getting this thing to behave. If I could just get the cold starts figured out and make it so it'll idle steady all the time (and not just when it feels like it), then I'd be happy.

  3. #3
    Tuner in Training
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    48
    Positive numbers in the spark idle overspeed table isn't helping.

    Idle airflow is way too high at cold temps and not smooth / random.

    Injector data looks off, zeros where there probably shouldn't be, I'm no expert at injector data though by any means.

    EQ ratio is too low for cold areas. Lean.

    PE enrich add vs ect is probably skewing you rich for a little bit with the tps values at 0 when cold.

    -Just my opinion.
    2001 Pontiac Trans Am M6 "cam only"
    228/232 110 cam, 10° overlap @.050" lift
    Edelbrock stepped headers, ORY, hooker catback

  4. #4
    I didn't notice the positive. That's a good catch. I'm guessing I was copying the -9 and it didn't make it across for some reason.

    Idle airflow is way high. When I run the RussK ide config for the RAF, that's what I get. It's stupid. It needs so much air at startup and I don't know why. It doesn't help either.

    Injector data was copied directly from FIC's spreadsheet. The zeroes are not zeroes there, but they are tiny, tiny numbers that HPT just makes zero. For example, 0.003049 is one value. I enter it into HPT even with 5 or 6 decimal accuracy. It just shows a zero? Is that a bug? Or is the pulsewidth so small it is essentially zero for the 02s PCM?

    EQ ratio was higher. It didn't matter. I'll play with it some more. Maybe it needs more fuel. Sometimes it takes 2-3 false fires before it'll catch. Then it struggles a bit. Maybe it just needs more fuel?

    I zereo'd out the PE enrich add vs ect based on the coolant temps I generally see.

    I've also started looking at a couple of other things.

    Spark Dwell Cranking Modifier - Couldn't find much on this, but it seems like I could adjust it to help?
    Cranking/Start Timing - added 2 degrees across the range from stock. Stock timing is pretty low. My idle timing is 28 degrees vs 13 or so for the cranking timing. Should these be closer? I mean, this is a big cam with compression...
    Afterstart Enrichment - reduced the decay delay, but left the numbers alone.
    Reduced the Open Loop EQ a little bit more - sort of contrary to the normal thought. But I did take out 5% and then 5% again in the areas under operating temp.
    Last edited by JakeFusion; 01-30-2015 at 10:48 PM.