Need some advice......closed loop rich issue

[SinfulSS]

been on this forum for a long time just never posted due to trying to take in as much info as possible.
vehicle run down- 1998 s-10 with a 2005 5.3 and 4l60e out of a yukon
862 heads been ported and polished
cam- texas speed 224r 112lsa
upgraded valvetrain
has 1-5/8 sanderson shorty headers on it / no cats/ front oxygen sensors/ with afr lc-1 mounted in drivers side exhaust.
tbss maf
stock injectors
small stall-2500-2900

motor originally was a dbw but i converted to dbc and am running a 2002 silverado pcm

i am having issues with it goin rich in closed loop..... it seems to be around 12.5-13.3 in closed loop idle and driving.
i am no pro at tuning and always learning, so with that being said i had a good friend whos on here help me tune it
followed all correct steps. but we fought with closed loop issue for 3-4 months.
i finally gave in and went to see a well known tuner in the community . (jeremy formato) at faster proms
after spending basically a day doing street tuning with him, we were still unable to figure out issue.
jeremy sugg i contact hp tuners which i have and they dont support tech per say on tunes from what ive been told.
they informed me to start a thread on here for help. jeremy set me up with a lean open loop speed density tune which i am fine with but for the life of the truck i dont wanna run it in olsd.
i have included tune file,logs,and config file
im running my lc-1 off egr
AFRLC1.cfgAFR Drive 1.hplAFR Drive 2.hplAFR ERR 1.hplafr error VE 1.hpt

any other info needed or tunes or logs i have a ton of them saved for each step ive gone through.
any help or sugg would be greatly appreciated.
thanks

[PST]

You do have front oxygen sensors? Your post could almost read either way, but you are trying to run closed loop, so I assume they are present.

What do the fuel trims do when it's rich? Have you tried changing switch point values to get it to go leaner?

[5FDP]

I take it at random it will swing lean while cruising sometimes and fall back to stoich and then at random go rich for 20-30 seconds and come back to working like normal?


If so I would plug the rear o2 sensors back in. Random rich/lean swings are kinda common with no rear o2 sensors because the computer runs a cat test that you can never disable. If they are plugged in with the codes shut off, the computer won't care.

[mecanicman]

MAF fail is set to 0, but none of the other settings have been changed. Pick a mode and set accordingly. Are there any codes? From what I see your 02s are no good or heaters are not working.

[SinfulSS]

P st - yes I do have fronts and fuel trims seem to be around -3.0-4.0
And I have tried changing the switch points with no real change.
5fdp - don't have rear sensors or cats
Commanded afr will be 14.68 and closed loop it's 12.3-13.4
Which is getting close to wot rich afr for a cam vehicle

[SinfulSS]

Mechanic man I was waiting for you to chime in
We have emailed back and forth and you started to help me
But then I had my daughter
How do you feel the oxygen sensors are bad or heater not working?

[mecanicman]

Your Iroc-10? How old are sensors?

[SinfulSS]

Nope flawlessfab and oxygen sensors are maybe 1-1.5 years old but they have maybe 1200 miles on them

[mecanicman]

Have any exhaust leaks? Can you confirm wiring to 02's and fuses? Scan does not look right, not getting enough range out of the 02. Set you maf fail hz to 13500 under engine diagnostics.

[SinfulSS]

As far as I have checked there was a slight exhaust leak on drivers manifold and head but I loosened and re centered gasket and seems to be gone.
I haven't ohm checked wiring to confirm in correct pin locations for pcm only verified wiring color and location on oxygen sensor side conmector.
Current performance built harness and I felt oxygen sensor range looked ok but like you said not swinging like it should and shouldn't it be a nice curves sign wave not Spikey. I also bought oxygen sensors to match pcm which were for a 2002 silverado
I know all oxygen sensors or narrowbands do basically the same thing.
I got pcm with harness used
Was starting to wonder if PCM heater or drivers were dead.

[Jack Daniels 383]

I'm very green, and it's probably nothing, however when I look at the o2 rich/lean vs airflow charts for bank 1 and 2 your's change and swing at a sufficiently different rate then my 02 6.0L stock file. I don't know if you have played with these. I'd be tempted to subtracting .25 a across the board and see what happens (bank 1 and 2).

Along the same lines - as an experiment I would change the closed loop integrator delay tables - airflow to 400 seconds across the board and the o2 error to 1.0 across the board.

Also is your lc1 mounted in addiation to the 2 sensors, or are you running it as a simulated narrowband sensor? And if so you have probably calibrated it to the right numbers following the rich / lean voltage numbers above?

Good luck - Merry Christmas,

[blownbluez06]

As for your heaters, they should be run by a relay. You can test resistance across the heater circuit in the 02 to make sure it's got continuity through the heater as opposed to an open circuit. Then turn around with your meter and look so make sure you have incoming 12v and ground for the heater on both. If you're not proficient with a meter, let the vehicle cool down completely and then turn the key on and feel the body of the 02's and make sure they get hot. If they don't your heater's not working. It seems more to me that they're just switching shallow and that could be from your proportional and integral values being off. Definitely don't go changing them to 400 seconds. Find a stock file in the repository and put them back to stock. Also, look at the actual switch point of the 02's and see where your LC1 is reading. Go into your VCM bi-directional controls and turn off closed loop and then begin pushing your fuel around rich and lean and make sure your LC1 swings properly with it. When your narrowbands are reading around 450mv, your LC1 should be reading around 14.7:1 if it's not, you need to focus on properly calibrating and setting that up. Use the Logworks software to set both outputs to wideband. I prefer to set them up 0-5V and 7.35-22.39 and then build a custom PID for it. That should be volts/.332 + 7.35

[SinfulSS]

Jack- have both front oxygen sensors mounted and then wideband mounted maybe 6 inches downstream of oxygen sensor on drivers side

Blown- I appreciate all the info and had no idea these tables weren't stock
Not sure why or how they got altered since I never messed with them
Hmm
one big concern for me is if my tbss maf is causing get a Conflict
From my understanding tbss maf uses a high low freq tables and in 2002 they only have a single freq
I have some down time from work and will llook into all of this
Mecanicman sent me a molded tune of mine and gave me Instructions to follow so I will be doing that and post up what I find

Also I have verified my wideband with two other widebands
I appreciate all the help and keep it coming still trying to learn what I can

[mecanicman]

It seems more to me that they're just switching shallow and that could be from your proportional and integral values being off. Definitely don't go changing them to 400 seconds. Find a stock file in the repository and put them back to stock.

That data is all stock, not sure why you think its not.

Your tbss maf does not matter. 2 tables into one does not matter. Is it different than stock? For sure, and will need to be calibrated. I think being descreened and right on an elbow is a bigger problem.

[SinfulSS]

The tables for the high low maf were merged using a formula on excel that a fellow tuner made
Not sure if that was correct way to handle it or not.
I may just purchase a maf correct for the os which is 2002 silvy
And move it away from elbow

[blownbluez06]

That data is all stock, not sure why you think its not.

Your tbss maf does not matter. 2 tables into one does not matter. Is it different than stock? For sure, and will need to be calibrated. I think being descreened and right on an elbow is a bigger problem.

Should've said "put them back to stock if you find they're not"

[SinfulSS]

Went and did some logs today with tune mecanicman sent over.
Will post up log files for anybody to see this afternoon.

[Jack Daniels 383]

So out of curiosity - did it fix your problem, and what did you end up doing to solve it?
Also for my post above the thought behind the integral delay to 400 was to essentially disable it as a troubleshooting measure - see what happens.