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Thread: Need Help with LAMBDA error histogram

  1. #1

    Need Help with LAMBDA error histogram

    Hey guys I'm helping a friend tune his bolt on 02 camaro. I followed the writeups on here and have the wideband reading 1.10 lambda when the afr is 16 flat outside the car. We did some logging and all the values were in the +9 range. I did the paste multiplier and then relogged and nothing changed. The scanner still read the same lambda errors.The log file is below but for some reason its not showing commanded lambda and lambda error. They were there though when I was scanning and got the error values. Here is the speed density tune I was using as well as the cfg file with all the pids. If anyone could look this over and let me know if they see anything wrong it would be awesome thanks...

    lambda tuning.cfgmike bosch stock tune speed density tuning file.hptScan 1 Ve error.hpl

  2. #2
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    Cant check it at work, but make sure you have commanded AFR high res and your wideband in your PID list.

    I just started messing with afr error since I finally got my wideband hooked up. Im not using lambda tho. Everywhere I've read said take the afr error table and paste/multiply it into my VE table. This caused all kinds of fueling problems. Wideband was showing 22+ everywhere. When I copied and click add to table it seemed to be better but I havent driven the truck enough to see if adding instead of multiplying works better.

    I'll make my own thread too after some more logging but when doing closed loop LTFT at 0/1 my afr is 14.2 but commanded afr is 14.68. With VE error open loop I'm getting closer to 14.68 but my STFT are always +big numbers. Is this common?
    04 Single cab Lq4/243 228r 112lsa, Long tubes, catless, Yank st3000.

  3. #3
    ya man i hear ya. i may actually try to tune off afr error if i cant get this right..... can anyone please chime in??

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    lambda tuning rev a.cfg

    VE - Wideband O2 rev a.hst

    Here are some general notes and then we will build the PID's......

    2 ways to develop a Commanded Lambda PID;

    Can use equivalence ratio [PID.6010] as long as in your particular OS, the values follow lambda context....i.e >1.0 for lean and <1.0 for rich. Verify this by going into WOT and determine if the EQ ratio PID follows the lambda context.

    If your OS does not, then you need to generate a Commanded Lambda PID which is simply your Commanded AFR Hi Res/Stoich AFR(from your tune file) .....[PID.6001]/14.62857 Now that you have your commanded Lambda, you need to develop an error PID:

    Error Pid is simply your NGK Wideband output [AUX.20121] / Commanded Lambda [PID.6010]

    Also included a Histogram for logging the VE error to allow copy/paste multiply error adjustments to your VE table.
    Hope this helps

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 11-01-2014 at 06:57 AM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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    So you are supposed to copy the afr or lambda error and paste/multiply into the VE table?

    When I do this my truck runs worse and for some reason seems to keep shooting for a 14.2 afr with maf disabled and set to .1 across the table and closed loop disabled. Anything else that can be fighting my VE changes or am I doing something wrong
    04 Single cab Lq4/243 228r 112lsa, Long tubes, catless, Yank st3000.

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nastruck View Post
    So you are supposed to copy the afr or lambda error and paste/multiply into the VE table?

    When I do this my truck runs worse and for some reason seems to keep shooting for a 14.2 afr with maf disabled and set to .1 across the table and closed loop disabled. Anything else that can be fighting my VE changes or am I doing something wrong
    Edits in Red since first post.....

    Not sure what you mean by "set to .1 across the table"?

    The open loop table s/b set to 1.0 (14.2) from 176 degrees engine temp and up and will be your targeted AFR unless you go into PE. Then you will target .87 lambda for PE. The PCM will also revert to the richest requirement where PE will take precedence over the open loop table.

    Set P0101, 102 and 103 (I do all three) to MIL on first error. Must fail over before SD becomes activated. To make sure, zero your entire MAF table. Also to make sure trims aren't playing a part, reset the fuel trims after each log/update via the VCM, even if in open loop.

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 11-02-2014 at 06:27 AM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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    I wrote a PID called Commanded Lambda.
    The formula is 1/EQ Ratio

    I thought all the Gen 3 OS were EQ > 1 = rich, EQ < 1 = lean.
    Y2K C5 A4 Coupe (10.78 @ 127) Cathedral port 6.2
    S476 L33 5.3 69 Nova 8.76 @ 158 Drive to the track street race car
    06 Cobalt SS bought new

  8. #8
    Tuner in Training Travis's Avatar
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    Newbe here, I am having a tough time trying to get this VE table down. My brain is hurting from reading so much!

    How do you make a pid?

    2 ways to develop a Commanded Lambda PID;

    Can use equivalence ratio [PID.6010] as long as in your particular OS, the values follow lambda context....i.e >1.0 for lean and <1.0 for rich. Verify this by going into WOT and determine if the EQ ratio PID follows the lambda context.

    If your OS does not, then you need to generate a Commanded Lambda PID which is simply your Commanded AFR Hi Res/Stoich AFR(from your tune file) .....[PID.6001]/14.62857 Now that you have your commanded Lambda, you need to develop an error PID:

    Error Pid is simply your NGK Wideband output [AUX.20121] / Commanded Lambda [PID.6010]


    The problem I have is the AFR error doesn't come up in my data. I see the formulas but how do you make it work in the table? I did just buy a AEM wideband, I installed it in the B1 O2 bung, not sure if this is ok or not? Followed the steps to set it up, but the scanner isn't picking it up. Is there another setup step I missed to activate it?

    This is my first go at this, I installed a comp cam XR275HR-12, FAST 33lbs/hr LS2 injectors into my dads 6.0 lq9. Been at it for over a week and he needs it back!

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Travis, Make sure all the pid's you have selected for your formulas is also inserted in your data table of the scanner and is supported. Hee is alink to an HPTuners demo...there are a few others to help you learn the ins and outs of the software as well.

    http://www.hptuners.com/help/demos/C...stom%20PID.swf

    Post up you log, .cfg and histograms you are using.

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 11-02-2014 at 06:31 AM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonSSnova View Post
    I wrote a PID called Commanded Lambda.
    The formula is 1/EQ Ratio

    I thought all the Gen 3 OS were EQ > 1 = rich, EQ < 1 = lean.
    I am not aware of all the applications so I actually have two separate pids/formulas that I use for ls1 ' s and make sure in the beginning of the log session. Different years show different contexts so I just like to make sure first.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
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  11. #11
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    Got ya. I've not tuned any of the later stuff.

  12. #12
    Tuner in Training Travis's Avatar
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    ve attemp 1.cfgdads ve primary 1.hpl

    Ok I think I have the attachment here (my first attempt on any forum)

  13. #13
    Tuner in Training Travis's Avatar
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    when I click my own attachment it says "unable to parse log" so I am not sure if it will work for you

  14. #14
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis View Post
    when I click my own attachment it says "unable to parse log" so I am not sure if it will work for you
    Travis,

    Opened ok...made several changes to add in to your chart the wb, commanded AFR, AFR error etc. airflow which you need. Please add the MAF HZ pid to your chart as well.

    Looking at the log and I have some major issues and ask you don't go into wot until corrected. There appears to be way too much timing as well as PE isn't cutting in at the needed times leaving the mixture very lean. These two issues are creating knock retard which as you know isn't good. Also I see your injectors are being taxed pretty heavily even at the 4K rpm area's. What is the setup you are tuning?

    Please post a copy of your tune so we can see what is going on.

    Let me know if you need anything else.

    Ed M

    ve attemp 1 rev a.cfg
    Attached Files Attached Files
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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    Tuner in Training Travis's Avatar
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    Just at work right now, but I will get the info later tonight. The vehicle is a 06 GMC 6.0l, 4x4. I installed a comp cam XR275HR-12, FAST 33lbs/hr LS2 injectors (because he has had several injectors fail before and it was cheaper to buy this then a set of stock injectors). In all my attemps, I believe I have PE turned so it comes on at a real high rpm (higher then I reach) and I think I have the MAF turned off as well. On my AEM gauge it is reading rich (I thought), 12:1 and when I am on it 10:1. Like I said I will send my tune later tonight, Thanks so much for the help!

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    Tuner in Training Travis's Avatar
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    OK so tonight I took it out and did a recording dads ve 2.hplve attemp 1 rev a.cfg

    But I noticed for some reason my wide band was out 1/2 a point, so I adjusted it and made another pass dads ve 2 a.hpl

    My messed up "tune" is dads tune.hpt

    Hope that's all the data you need to save me! Thanks again for all the help mowton!

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Travis View Post
    OK so tonight I took it out and did a recording dads ve 2.hplve attemp 1 rev a.cfg

    But I noticed for some reason my wide band was out 1/2 a point, so I adjusted it and made another pass dads ve 2 a.hpl

    My messed up "tune" is dads tune.hpt

    Hope that's all the data you need to save me! Thanks again for all the help mowton!
    Here are the changes to the tune.....

    Set General>Air Fuel Ratio>Stoich AFR at 0.00 to 14.2 (E-10 AFR)

    To get to proper open loop mode for tuning, set Open & Closed Loop>Open Loop>STFT Openloop to disable and Long Term Fuel Trims>LTFT Enable>Min ECT to 285. Will return to stock values when tuning is complete and tune is put back into Closed Loop.

    In Power Enrichment Set PE Enable>MAP to 85, set PE Throttle/Pedal>Hot and Cold> to all 30, set Power Enrichment>EQ Ratio to all 1.13, set Enrichment Ramp In to 1.0 and finally PE Delay to 2000

    In COT, Lean Cruise set CAT Over Temp Protection>COT to disable (will stop COT enrichment from messing with fueling during tuning, can turn back on when complete)

    In Advance, zero out AFR Correction>Base table. Shift contents of IAT Spark>Base from 86F to 95F and zero 86F column. In ECT Spark>Base, shift contents from 212F to 221F and zero 212F column

    In Torque Management>Max Torque change 350 to 600

    This should help get the tune Spark and fueling in-line. Reset the trims and do another log with nice easy logging to collect as much steady state data as possible. Do a little at a time and update tune as you go....take small steps (I know you don't have much time...) and mult 1/2 as you get close.

    Remember, for belts and suspenders to clear the fuel trims before each logging session as well......

    Ed M
    Last edited by mowton; 11-04-2014 at 07:44 AM.
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

    ERM Performance Tuning -- Interactive Learning ..from tuning software training to custom tunes
    HP Tuners Dealer- VCM Suite (free 2hr training session with purchase), credits and new Version 2.0 turtorial available
    http://www.ermperformancetuning.com
    http://www.facebook.com/ERMPerformanceTuning

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