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Thread: Is speed density tune and custom os root cause of my repeated transmission failures?

  1. #21
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordoza View Post
    the converter is locking in. you can see rpm drop between 350rpm and 400rpm when it locks in.

    See where.......

    Ed M
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  2. #22
    [QUOTE=mowton;365861]See where.......

    Ed M[/QUOT

    when logging with the scanner when the converter locks in the scanner shows a 3 to 400 rpm drop plus it shows same drop on the tach. i would log it and send a scan but car isnt running right now since the trans is being reclutched. i was logging all this and adjusting things when the trans came back the last time because the quad disc cionverter would engage extremely hard with the factory settings. it would chirp the tires when the converter locked.

    just as a run down. since the start of this nightmare the first trans was rebuilt four times. it had two different converters during that time. the first was a single disc 9 inch then a single disc 10 inch both 3500 stall although the first stalled 3600 and the second was like 2800. they swapped the valve body on the third rebuild and installed a brand new tcm upon the first rebuild and another upon the third rebuild. they supplied the first trans and didnt rebuild my original trans so after all that we talked and decided possible bad core so they rebuilt and modified a different core to my build level and we where sure that would take care of it. that trans lasted less then 60 miles. that time i was told the incorrect tcm was installed and it was rebuilt and a new tcm installed. this is when i upgraded the converter to the quad disc because they said my converter clutch was a little burnt and they thought i would benefit from the increased area of the quad disc. took it and got it flashed. installed there settings in the tune and it lasted three months then started to slip and i have sent it back for a reclutch.

  3. #23
    alrighty guys thanks for all the ideas but dsteck looked at the tune by email and found patc hadnt turned of the freeze adapts and max pressure pull downs when torque calc fails. so everytime i failed the maf it would go to preset adapt freezes and max pressure. so duh wish i had seen that. anyway dsteck is my hero.

  4. #24
    Senior Tuner mowton's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordoza View Post
    alrighty guys thanks for all the ideas but dsteck looked at the tune by email and found patc hadnt turned of the freeze adapts and max pressure pull downs when torque calc fails. so everytime i failed the maf it would go to preset adapt freezes and max pressure. so duh wish i had seen that. anyway dsteck is my hero.
    Way to go Dave

    That's interesting....I personally have never ran into this. So what you are saying is if we are running SD, then you always need to disable those two Trans Diag values? And I assume also if you are tuning the VE.

    Enquiring minds what to know?

    Ed M
    2004 Vette Coupe, LS2, MN6, Vararam, ARH/CATs, Ti's, 4:10, Trickflow 215, 30# SVO, Vette Doctors Cam, Fast 90/90, DD McLeod, DTE Brace, Hurst shifter, Bilsteins etc. 480/430

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  5. #25
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Given that the stock clutch pack fill volumes were left in for a modified trans, it's a safe bet they are wrong. Inhibiting learning means they'll never even get close to right. It's not a fix, but it's a start.

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  6. #26
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Good catch Dave.

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  7. #27
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    On second thought, after lookin back at the tune, I don't think that' it. Max pressure is not going to burn up clutches. Also, the clutch fill is fairly irrelevant. Standard procedure when building a performance trans is to increase the clutch capacity, which would decrease the clutch fill, which again, would not be a problem. If the clutch fill volume was INCREASED and the values too low, then you'd have a possible clutch fill/slip problem.

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  8. #28
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edcmat-l1 View Post
    On second thought, after lookin back at the tune, I don't think that' it. Max pressure is not going to burn up clutches. Also, the clutch fill is fairly irrelevant. Standard procedure when building a performance trans is to increase the clutch capacity, which would decrease the clutch fill, which again, would not be a problem. If the clutch fill volume was INCREASED and the values too low, then you'd have a possible clutch fill/slip problem.
    I've always understood that overfilling can make the oncoming clutch engage before the offgoing clutch lets go.

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  9. #29
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    I've always understood that overfilling can make the oncoming clutch engage before the offgoing clutch lets go.
    That's a real possibility. I'd like to know which clutch packs are taking the heat, and then look at the hydraulic flow chart, see if it's related.

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  10. #30
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    I been folling this thread and just from my personal experience I have never had any luck with alto red clutches and patc seems to promote these clutch packs .this leads me to believe it what they are using in these builds. maybe it the build that is not holding.just my 2 cents

  11. #31
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    so was car slamming into gear at part throttle shifts ?

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Maxspeed96ct View Post
    so was car slamming into gear at part throttle shifts ?
    car always shifted very firmly on all the shifts except the 3-4. it always just kinda slid into gear. i had complained about the 3-4 but was told due to my converter it would do that when you went into 4th. i didnt really see what the coverter had to due with the 3-4 shift but wouldnt effect the rest. all the other shifts didnt seem out of line for a performance transmission and i have owner a few. infact i usually build my own but had this one done by patc due to the newness of the trans and my never having built one before. at this point i wish i had just went to a 4l80 conversion. i have used the red altos alot in other trannys and havent ever seen a problem with them.

  13. #33
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    The best 6L80 info I found to date is in the G8 world. If you search you will find that there are lots of problems with the alto clutches in these trannies. After learning this I went with stock clutches (adding a few extra) and have no problems to date. The only other person I know with a PATC built trans with big HP also had lots of issues.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by realcanuk View Post
    The best 6L80 info I found to date is in the G8 world. If you search you will find that there are lots of problems with the alto clutches in these trannies. After learning this I went with stock clutches (adding a few extra) and have no problems to date. The only other person I know with a PATC built trans with big HP also had lots of issues.
    Bingo.
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  15. #35
    Senior Tuner edcmat-l1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jordoza View Post
    car always shifted very firmly on all the shifts except the 3-4. it always just kinda slid into gear. i had complained about the 3-4 but was told due to my converter it would do that when you went into 4th. i didnt really see what the coverter had to due with the 3-4 shift but wouldnt effect the rest. all the other shifts didnt seem out of line for a performance transmission and i have owner a few. infact i usually build my own but had this one done by patc due to the newness of the trans and my never having built one before. at this point i wish i had just went to a 4l80 conversion. i have used the red altos alot in other trannys and havent ever seen a problem with them.
    The 3-4 shift could have been made a good bit more aggressive in the tune, which may have helped it, but even so, if it needed that, something wasn't right with the build.

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