Is speed density tune and custom os root cause of my repeated transmission failures?

[jordoza]

I have a 12 camaro ss turbo 376 lsx and a built 6l80e. I have had six trans failures since i had the trans modified two years ago. I bought the pheonix package and had patc provide the transmission portion of the tune. Car runs great. makes awesome power and is tuned well engine wise with the custom 2.5 bar operating system in speed density mode. I just cant keep a trans in it to save my life. it works great for anywhere from one day to two months then starts slipping and i have to send it back. patc has been great and has rebuilt it everytime no charge but it takes awhile in shipping and stuff each time so i havent been able to drive my car very much in the last two years. im really pretty fed up. My car on low boost which is all I have run it on since the first tune I did was done makes 565 rwhp and the tranny is rates to 1200hp so im not just over powering it. My high boost puts me in the 900 range so I havent run it cause Im sure it will just burn out faster. So I talked to a big time race shop which I wont name that uses this same trans in alot of there 5th gen builds with way more power then me and the owner said right away that is was because of me running it speed density. He stated that I have to run the maf sensor to provide torque calculations to the transmission. He said he has proven many times that a 6l80 will burn up in no time with out the maf. The car does have the maf and it is tuned but I run speed density because the turbo being to close to the maf causes some bad idle fluctuations. then the owner stated i should go with sct tune and get rid of the custom os because of all the problems hp tuners have with there custom os. I hadnt heard of any problems myself. I went ahead and logged some runs to check and it seems my delivered torque follows what i would expect from the car in different driving conditions up to 640lbft i believe then it just stops. A tuner friend of mine says that is a max that is wont go above in the code. So im asking.

1 Is the maf required to calculate torque for a 6l80?
2 Is the custom os problem ridden?
3 If maf is required will it support 1200 hp as this shop owner is saying it will? I thought it was quite a bit lower then that.

ps was gonna post the tune file but i wanna ask PATC first cause they provided the trans tune and dont wanna step on anyones toes.

[mowton]

Is it a scaled tune?

[realcanuk]

At 565 hp even a stock trans should last. At 900 it's a different story. I have run the custom OS for a few years now. That is not the issue. The reported torque is needed but I am not sure if it needs the MAF or not to work properly. I would like to see that trans tune. Something is definitely up with the tune. I can't imagine they can get the build itself wrong so many times.

[mowton]

The reported torque is needed but I am not sure if it needs the MAF or not to work properly......

That's is where I was going with the scaled question. If torque isn't reported correctly, both shift and TCC pressures could be in error, as well as some Torque Management operations.

I would log several of the torque PIDS as well as Shift Pressures, TCC slip, Shift times, input/output rpms, turbine rpm etc. to see what may be going on to start which it sounds like the OP has performed. If the torque flatlines at 640, perhaps scaling the tune for that restriction might be an option relative to pressures and what not. Not a theory I have ever thought long and hard about though......

Gotta think about the MAF/Torque function and scaling some.......

Ed M

[realcanuk]

That's is where I was going with the scaled question. If torque isn't reported correctly, both shift and TCC pressures could be in error, as well as some Torque Management operations.

Ed M

Agree 100%.

[BigDaddyCool]

Flat out. 6 transmission failures is the tune.

Make sure if your running mafless that the VE is reporting correctly across the diff manifold temps = helps the transmission understand torque levels for shifting. And look at the Engine Torque Air Calculations (for how the ECu works out torque etc).... also help the transmission in mafless.

-----

Either way tune is most likely issue. I assume you still have 'some' torque management? On at least the transmission side....

[edcmat-l1]

I'd be interested in seeing the tune and data log. If you don't have a problem emailing it to me, I'll keep it off the world wide webz. [email protected] is my email address.

PS, if you're using their trans tune, you'd think they'd know if you engine tq calculations were off. As for the advice you got from Ted on HPtuners vs. SCT, well, email me for my opinion.

[ElecTech]

As for the advice you got from Ted on HPtuners vs. SCT, well, email me for my opinion.

This is where is where my head is at. If SCT could solve the problem, then that just means running the stock OS and HP Tuners will do anything with a stock OS that SCT can and probably more. So buying more gizmos is not the answer. That's just propaganda.

[realcanuk]

This is where is where my head is at. If SCT could solve the problem, then that just means running the stock OS and HP Tuners will do anything with a stock OS that SCT can and probably more. So buying more gizmos is not the answer. That's just propaganda.

Agree with this. May we ask who has been tuning this car ??

[jordoza]

this is not a scaled tune. I agree 100% it has to be the tune. email was sent to edcmat-l1. I am surprised you knew exactly who i was talking about. Well the reason i called him was because patc had said he helped them write this tune which he flat denies. After looking and comparing it to another built trans tune I found in the forums i am surprised it lasts as long as it does. I have tuned the engine portion myself but patc has sent the tune to match the modifications they did to the transmission. PATC doesnt want he tune posted. I really hope edcmat-l1 can help me out here and give me an opinion and a direction to go cause im tired of having a really nice piece of camaro yard art.

[DSteck]

SCT. Lol.

Are you talking about PatG? Post the tune. I think you're beyond the point of worrying about anybody's feelings getting hurt.

[realcanuk]

I think hes talking about Ted Jannety...... He is the SCT king but I wouldn't let him tune my lawn mower.

[jordoza]

PATC is still rebuilding the trans if i was to go against there wishes i might lose there help at this point.

[mowton]

I guess the rest of us will just have to sit back and watch the movie.........:-(

[DSteck]

I kept seeing PATC and wondered if PatG was who you meant because I know he's been involved with aftermarket transmissions.

Needing the MAF is flat out false. You do need to disable the default max pressure stuff. You can email me the calibration at [email protected].

[ttz06vette]

Sounds like your getting some great help on keeping SD. If you ever do consider going to MAF, take a look at the Abaco MAF. It worked for me in smoothing out turbulence and airflow that were causing idle and off idle problems.

http://www.abacoperformance.com/products.htm

[Maxspeed96ct]

I had to install a tc patch when I disabled the maf in my truck , what happened was it commanded max line pressure shifts at even part or light throttle.

But if this was your issue you would of known , cause it gave neck breaking shifts at 5% throttle .

Wish we could see the tune and see what was done

[edcmat-l1]

I looked at it and it's not in the tune. Not the engine, or trans. Only thing I didn't really like were the pressures were damn high, but that's not going to burn up clutches.

[MikeOD]

Are you sure the converter is locking (not being commanded to, but actually locking)...I've seen that elevate transmission temps and burn clutches.

[jordoza]

Are you sure the converter is locking (not being commanded to, but actually locking)...I've seen that elevate transmission temps and burn clutches.

the converter is locking in. you can see rpm drop between 350rpm and 400rpm when it locks in.