GEN 4 VIper Almost Gave up

[Revolution]

So after dealing with several issues all year I decided to disregard my "tuners" advice and lack of advice from the HP staff which have been quick to stick up for my "tuner" and quick to blame it on mechanical issues. A little back ground on myself I have been tuning many high performance vehicles for over 10 years but I have avoided scanners like HP and have only worked on full stand alone systems, like AEM, Haltec, Big Stuff etc.... My experience so far with HP and my tuners has been down right disapointing to say the least. Any questions are pretty well met with I don't know and this a new platform blah blah blah. I tried contacting Keith directly since he runs the same platform but he too was no help and quick to blame everything else but the Tuner and HP, I asked him several times if he would look at my logs he insisted it was a mechanical issue even though it would be obvious to anyone that is knowlegable with EFI cars that it was a tune related issue. I pulled my Tuners tune tosday started back at stock and used my own suspecions to undo some of his sugestion and what do you know car is running better then ever. I'm hoping maybe this post might push HP to actually try to help someone else in the future so they don't have to go through trying to figure out all this stuff on there own. P.S to all these tuners out there please don't tell people to do things if your not even aware of what your asking them to do works! Rant Over!

[LEDbetter]

Good rant. It is frustrating and we all get the "I don't know" answer. Especially when dealing with 2.25 beta work. But I do have to say that the HP Tuners staff has stepped it up this past summer.

[Revolution]

I guess I'm used to working with systems that the people that sell it and developed it understand it and you can ask a question on what does this table for instance do and get an answer. Kind of thought that would be a very basic expectation

[Brice]

Hptuners is a software editor ...

They give you the keys (software) to tune your car ... not the tune. You have to do your homework ;-)

If you are more confortable to use a standalone system and start from scratch than start from the stock tune ... continue that way ...

You can't simply compare stand alone system with direct contact with the marker of the system and Hptuners team who is mapping existing parameters from a various factory pcm
And you definitevely don't need a stand alone system if you car works great with stock tune ;-)

Personnaly, I'm more than happy that Hp tuners released Dodge tuning possibilty than use expensive stand alone system for customers with minor mods ...
They have recently add support for me for new cars in less than 48h (pt cruiser and 300c V6) ... excellent job ! ... and I have to do mine : understand the logic and relations between the new dodge tables to provide custom tunes, power and reliabilty to my customers.

[Revolution]

I fullly understand they don't give you a tune I'm fine with the a tuning part but when you have a table that know one can really explain what its doing how do you get the most out of your application like that? I'm not comparing the functionality of standalone to the HP please read my post I'm comparing the tech support.

[Brice]

I fullly understand they don't give you a tune I'm fine with the a tuning part but when you have a table that know one can really explain what its doing how do you get the most out of your application like that? I'm not comparing the functionality of standalone to the HP please read my post I'm comparing the tech support.

which table ? what is your issue ?

[Bill@HPTuners]

Last I checked we do not make standalone systems, its not like we write the code whereas AEM and all of those guys can actually write the code and simplify it down to a short manual, we don't have that luxury, we reverse engineer oem systems that need to be able to meet the strictest of EPA/CARB standards.

Additionally:

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...e-in-2-25-BETA

"1) The stock calibration cannot be read out.
- Because of this, we provide you with our modified operating system that includes some scanning enhancements.
- This also adds read capability to the Gen4 calibration (Not available in Gen5)."

[Keith@HPTuners]

This is a very frustrating post.

I asked you to post you tune here so I could look at it. You never did.
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...into-limp-mode

We're a tool manufacturer. We don't offer tuning advice or tuning assistance, nor are we going to guess at what an issue could be via remote, mechanical or tuning.

If myself and our other engineers helped everyone out via private message or e-mail with their tuning issues, our new product development would crawl to a halt. Again, we're a tool manufacturer.

If you have tuning issues, you should be consulting with one of the experts in the field of your vehicle.

The Viper is a unique vehicle. We didn't know what some of the tables did. This is the case sometimes on any type of new product development. We can guesstimate what they do, add them to the calibration, and then wait for feedback from the end-users.

You had an issue that you wanted me to help you fix, and you seemed to fix it on your own but have not actually told us what the solution was. You have helped nobody but yourself. It'd be great if you could help the other viper tuners as well as they could possibly have a similar issue. This is especially critical in the Viper market since there are so few people that actually tune their vehicle.

I have posted a lot of the results that I have seen in efforts to help the Viper market, and have also shared my personal race tune with several tuners to help them as well. I would greatly appreciate it if you would post your feedback and results as well. I'm sure the few other viper tuners would also appreciate it.