Results 1 to 11 of 11

Thread: MAF Cal, WTF am I doing wrong?

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    566

    MAF Cal, WTF am I doing wrong?

    This is a re-cal of my car after getting it running again (08/C6 Z06). I just got the heads back. I had them worked for a set of Crower roller rockers, along with some additional port work. While I was at it, I port matched the Fast intake runners and sent the 90 mm TB out to Vmax for his cnc porting. I also changed O2 sensors to some NTK direct replacements that has slightly longer leads. I am using the custom OS. I moved to the custom OS for no other reason than to have VE tables to work with.

    So yesterday I finally had a decent day to re-cal the tune. I do not have access to a dyno, so I use a long stretch of road that I can monitor my lap top without any real danger of traffic. Yes, I know, a dyno is preferable. If I had one, or access to one, I’d use it.

    I’ve played around with tuning this car dozens and dozens of times. I have a routine now…..

    1) Check / recalibrate VE with STFT’s. All VE multipliers set to 1. Closed loop enabled, PE disabled as well as all the other fuel adders like cat protection. MAF disabled, MIL set to light up on first error so I now it’s disabled. I keep engine speed under 4500. LTFT’s disabled.
    2) Check / recalibrate MAF with STFT’s. I just roll to MAF after VE. Leave all the VE tables alone, and just re-enable MAF. LTFT’s disabled as with VE calibration.
    3) Install WB, check / recalibrate WOT MAF with PE enabled, cat protection, clutch and deceleration fuel cut off disabled. I’ll take a couple runs in second gear to read line, WOT from a fast enough roll to keep the tires from breaking loose.

    VE calibration took about thirty minutes. Two logs, some tweaks, and a final third verification log and I was done. 3% max STFT error. Then I moved to MAF and ran into problems. I’m not sure if I did something wrong, I have a sensor problem, or my expectations are out of line. Normally MAF cal is the quickest and easiest for me to get through. Again, I was using STFT’s. I had my histogram set to Average. I took care to keep rpm steady in each histogram cell long enough to get 25 hits, then slowly move to the next. I usually do this in second gear. The first log was showing STFT’s were an average of about 10% to the negative in some areas of the low MAF table. I copied the histogram average table, and used the paste special, multiply % into the HPT MAF table. Saved the new calibration with a new file name, then wrote the calibration to the ECM. Took a log, and things were closer. The second round I used the multiply half % function. Well this time when I took a log, STFT’s were out in the weeds, showing up to a negative 25%. Not really understanding what went wrong, I wrote the previous calibration back to the ECM. Took a drive and the STFT’s were still way out in the weeds. I then experimented and found that the STFT’s would be close to a zero % average in second gear, steady and slow rpm increase, but they’d be way off in the same problem MAF cells while in fourth, fifth or sixth gear. So this is where I’m a bit perplexed. What would it matter if the engine is pulling the same amount of air to support a stoic combustion (as read in the MAF frequency table cells), but at different rpm’s?? Could this be due to velocity through the TB? Or, is this a symptom of a weak MAF sensor? Or, is this to be expected? Would using LTFT’s be a better method for calibrating the low MAF table?

    One other thing I’m noticing, that’s a new thing I’ve not ever had happen, is that when I park the car after a log, and it comes to an idle, the rpm will raise to about 1600 and will not drop. Thinking this was a minimum idle air flow thing, I recalibrated that table. I use the adaptive idle spark histogram technique for calibrating this table. I will use the HPT controls to raise / lower idle and log error then adjust the min air flow table. I copy all the 1200 rpm values into the cells over 1200 rpm. Well I did this, but it did not stop this parked idle rpm creep. It does not do this when I have the MAF disabled and the car is running off the VE tables. It only does this with VE disabled and running off MAF.

    I probably wasted about three hours taking logs and sending new calibrations to the ECM. I finally decided I better just give up, and figure out what is happening and what I’m either doing wrong, or if I should look for a mechanical problem. I did order a new MAF sensor as well, but it will not get to me for a few days.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by Michael_D; 09-09-2014 at 07:53 AM. Reason: Added files
    When arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing....

  2. #2
    Tuner in Training hook's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Austin, TX
    Posts
    29
    post a couple scans and your tune

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    All Around
    Posts
    3,149
    I would like to mentioned that the E38 PCM have a tendency to run rich after reflash for like the first 10-15 minutes. so you will see your trims way negative
    Follow @MASTUNING visit www.mastuned.com
    Remote Tuning [email protected]
    Contact/Whatsapp +966555366161

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    566
    attached files.
    When arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing....

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    566
    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    I would like to mentioned that the E38 PCM have a tendency to run rich after reflash for like the first 10-15 minutes. so you will see your trims way negative
    Are you serious? What would cause that??? It would certainly explain some weirdness..... Kind of pisses me off that it is not mentioned in any of the tuning books I have bought. I do reset fuel trims after every flash, but I supose this rich state after a flash has nothing to do with that?
    When arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing....

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_D View Post
    Are you serious? What would cause that??? It would certainly explain some weirdness..... Kind of pisses me off that it is not mentioned in any of the tuning books I have bought. I do reset fuel trims after every flash, but I supose this rich state after a flash has nothing to do with that?
    http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...ch-after-Flash

    It's something a lot of us don't know the cause of...and hate.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    566
    Well that would be a compelling argument to tune using LTFT’s…. Just go for a long drive and wait till things settle down. But I’m wondering why I had no trouble with VE calibration? Not having issues calibrating VE kind of suggests that unmetered air is getting to through the TB after the MAF sensor. When I was dialing in the VE table, I just flashed and went for a drive collecting data within a couple minutes.

    So out of curiosity, when you guys calibrate MAF, do you collect data in a lower gear, or higher gear, or both?
    When arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing....

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    218
    Does the e40 ECM do this aswell ? I chased my tail a bit with my table over correcting each time , it was a lot worse with the stft tuning then the Wideband .

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Posts
    1,668
    Quote Originally Posted by Michael_D View Post
    Well that would be a compelling argument to tune using LTFT’s…. Just go for a long drive and wait till things settle down. But I’m wondering why I had no trouble with VE calibration? Not having issues calibrating VE kind of suggests that unmetered air is getting to through the TB after the MAF sensor. When I was dialing in the VE table, I just flashed and went for a drive collecting data within a couple minutes.

    So out of curiosity, when you guys calibrate MAF, do you collect data in a lower gear, or higher gear, or both?
    Mine does it in VE, MAF, and blending.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maxspeed96ct View Post
    Does the e40 ECM do this aswell ? I chased my tail a bit with my table over correcting each time , it was a lot worse with the stft tuning then the Wideband .
    Don't know.
    2010 Camaro SS M6. Stock Bottom End, Heads/Cam/Intake/Headers/Exhaust.
    2005 Silverado RCSB. Forged 370 LQ9/Borg-Forced Inductions T6 S484/Jake's Stage 4 4L80E with D3 Brake/4WD.
    2023 Durango Hellcat

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    on the Dyno
    Posts
    1,825
    I didn't see where you disabled SD by setting dynamic airflow to a low RPM to force MAF only while calibrating it... It says you left VE tables alone and re-enabled the MAF. You need to force it into MAF only when calibrating it so that all airflow calculations are based off that table and not manipulated by VE/SD.
    James Short - [email protected]
    Located in Central Kentucky
    ShorTuning
    2020 Camaro 2SS | BTR 230 | GPI CNC Heads | MSD Intake | Rotofab | 2" LT's | Flex Fuel | 638rwhp / 540rwtq
    2002 Camaro | LSX 427 | CID LS7's | Twin GT5088's | Haltech Nexus R5 | RPM TH400

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Alaska
    Posts
    566
    Quote Originally Posted by LSxpwrdZ View Post
    I didn't see where you disabled SD by setting dynamic airflow to a low RPM to force MAF only while calibrating it... It says you left VE tables alone and re-enabled the MAF. You need to force it into MAF only when calibrating it so that all airflow calculations are based off that table and not manipulated by VE/SD.
    I have dynamic airflow "high RPM disable" > 0, and "high RPM re-enable RPM" set to 0 as well. Is this incorrect?
    When arguing with an idiot, make sure he isn't doing the same thing....