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Thread: Dreaded KR

  1. #1

    Dreaded KR

    So I am curious on how many people are experiencing consistent KR and who rarely ever sees KR...


    This has been plaguing me for the longest time ever since I have purchased the car. I have watched and rewatched all guide videos and at the moment I have nothing but smoothing out the timing tables by hand, excel macro or HP Tuners... No matter what the H3!! I do i always have KR everywhere... this is extremely frustrating and I have no idea what to do at this point. I am not a total Noob at this but I am definitely still learning.

    The KR sensors have been clocked to 9 o'clock and have been torqued correctly.

    2007 Saturn Sky Redline
    Built engine, stock valve train, stock turbo, 3" exhaust and 3" downpipe

    KR.JPG

    Not looking for handouts... Just a bit of what am I doing wrong or some solid pointers is what I am asking.

    Thanks

  2. #2
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    Your fuel trims dialed in?

    Anything touching the knock sensors? Any wires looming not clipped in, etc

    Solid motor/trans mounts?

    Whats your spark tables look like?

    Is it pulling timing?

  3. #3
    Fuel trims dialed in yes

    knock sensor wires are clipped in up to my knowledge I will verify to confirm today

    New motor mounts all around all tied down I check that during the oil change yesterday.

    Ill upload a tune and log as soon as I can

  4. #4
    Log and tune from this morning.

    Timing tables smoothed and parked. (all four the same)
    Cam tables parked
    Injector constant change for new injectors.

    this is all stock timing and cam values DAL, MALT, WGDC all is stock. just smoothed and parked....

    Thanks for any input
    Attached Files Attached Files

  5. #5
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    Your PE table needs work. In the log, you're dropping down to .898 lambda without your desired/commanded ETC being over 40%.... That's going to cause a severe rich condition with no need for it. This will cause KR. Also, you're running richer than factory? Why? No reason with stock like boost and timing?

    Also, looks like the wild swings in ignition timing is causing a lot of the KR as well. Just because you smoothed all four timing tables and made them the same doesn't mean anything if your OS tables are all different.

    WOT pull at frame 10215 - TB closes and a severe fueling condition causes the motor to cut WAY back... Rail pressure drops and STFT shoots to the moon. Same thing in frame 12232. Sorry but your fuel trims aren't anywhere close to being dialed in. Also, your injector constant is over 10% less than stock?

    Do you have 3-bar MAP sensors?
    09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol

    Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
    Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
    Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan

  6. #6
    OK I have gone through several logs and tunes and wrapping up maf cal. KR is getting way better.

    My injector constant is different because of opel injectors. I need some work on this I will report back soon with a updated log and tune.

    Thanks for the input. I appreciate it.

  7. #7
    Attached is my latest file.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
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    Looks a little better. Ignition timing still needs work (increase it and smooth in areas), as it's still quite erratic. Your fueling/MAF tuning still needs a lot of work. Keep at it man!
    09 RY Cobalt SS Coupe - 19K miles - Bolt ons + 7163 ZFR, HP tuned on ethanol

    Sold - 09 SRTC Cobalt SS Sedan
    Totaled - 09 VR Cobalt SS Sedan
    Sold - 09 RY Cobalt SS Sedan

  9. #9
    ^Along with this info, I can't look over the tune at work. From the tune:

    1) Your OS tables aren't all the same. Three are, but you missed the intake min / exhaust min in the low load, low rpm area. copy/paste from one of the other three.

    2) Copy your intake and exhaust cam tables to their respective cat warming main warm & cold. All five should be the same for your intake and exhaust cams - cat warming hold & cold, knock, base angle hot & cold.

    3) Set your cam heating factor tables to 0.

    4) Smooth the intake and exhaust cam tables to eliminate sharp transitions. Takes a lot longer, but I prefer doing it by hand.

    5) Without seeing your logs, I'm guessing from your 100% WGDC @ 100% pedal that you're running 22+ psi even with the DAL knocked down some. If this is the case, your PE is way too lean from 60-90% pedal. You'll be at full boost anywhere above 3k rpm on stock turbo. With this understanding, why would you want to command 1.00 lambda anywhere above 60% pedal and 3k rpm? richen up those areas. Smooth ramp.

    6) If idle is a little rough, try bumping it up to 850rpm. Smooths it out.


    Keep working at it. You're getting there.

  10. #10
    Also, under Torque Management -> General -> Tip-In Limiting -> Load Damping ETC Limit -> set whole table to max (100%). I also set the Mult table to 1's

  11. #11
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    I always had kr in my gxp since they day i bought it, i had a dashhawk with an alarm set at 3 degrees of kr and it went off every time, the cobalt guys don't seem to have this.
    I've tried it all and given up, if kr would be so bad for the engine it should of blew a piston long ago.

  12. #12
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    Eric I told you to message me. Most of it will clear out you are just going about it wrong from last time we spoke.

  13. #13
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    the kappa cars record pre-programmed ignition cuts from tables like iat spark modifier and afr spark modifier. It then counts the removed value as kr. if you don't smooth every table and turn off every multiplier then you will most likely see kr over 3* on every drive.
    With kappas having more drive train load, and not accelerating through the rpm as like a lower load cobalt can, the kappas commonly detonate a few degrees before the cobalt and hhr's.
    Last edited by cobaltssoverbooster; 09-02-2014 at 02:15 PM.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  14. #14
    Advanced Tuner |V3nom|'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    the kappa cars record pre-programmed ignition cuts from tables like iat spark modifier and afr spark modifier. It then counts the removed value as kr. if you don't smooth every table and turn off every multiplier then you will most likely see kr over 3* on every drive.
    With kappas having more drive train load, and not accelerating through the rpm as like a lower load cobalt can, the kappas commonly detonate a few degrees before the cobalt and hhr's.
    wish id have know about this when i was tuning my sky rl.
    2008 Sky RL

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    The newer sky doesn't do it as much as the solstice and first year sky. It's so annoying I hate that programmed feature

  16. #16
    All spark modifiers have been zeroed out.

    AFR Corrections Base
    IAT Spark Base and Mult
    ECT Spark Base

    I dont think i missed any I will make a few runs with them off then a few runs with them on and post log and tune.

    Thanks guys!!

  17. #17
    Attached are my modifer-less tune and log
    Attached Files Attached Files

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ericemir View Post
    Attached are my modifer-less tune and log
    The histogram average seems to show a bit less degrees pulled but if you look at the cell Count you have higher amount of instances of kr in some areas and lower in others. Not sure if i see much change honestly.

  19. #19
    If I go 50/50 e85 and 93 then that it self if not easily detonated. I still wouldnt shoot for top power yet but atleast I will know that its not real KR?

    are my thoughts correct or will that throw an entire additional can of worms into the mix?

    Thanks to all by the way I have been dealing with this for a long time and I think its time to take a hard look at this to see why this is continuing to happen...

    Is timing to high in some areas, not high enough, Why in only cyl 2 and 3 the most? so many questions and I havent really seen any major improvements.... I have started at ground zero.. removed all my bolt ons, gone thru all the guides and videos and I continue to have some major KR randomly...

  20. #20
    Advanced Tuner |V3nom|'s Avatar
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    what ive heard in the past, in this forum, to check for real kr is to run race fuel or some other super high octane fuel and check for knock and if it still shows knock then its ghost kr.
    2008 Sky RL