Rich after Flash

[MikeOD]

+1

Use the WB instead of O2's and the only thing I normally have to deal with after flash is moving enough air through to remove heat soak from sitting still.

I never use the O2's, and I always tune in open loop off the wideband, then re-enable it when I'm done. EVERY E38 I've touched has this issue every time.

did you guys try the switch under fuel/open&closed loop far left

Misc
High DI Enrich

i tried it, i think it reduces the enrichment after the flash

I found that in EFILive a while back and asked HPTuners to add it...and to no avail...it made no change in this issue.

[10_SS]

You're right I got mine in March 2008 when I asked.

What you got when you asked was the updated Tunercat version... I actually had to convince them there was a parameter avail and they looked for it and found it. They also gave me a few beta versions that relabeled all the axis to 2bar axis, which made it look like a true 2bar OS, however the scanner and other scanners still reported the 1bar scale so made it hard to tune. But very impressed with their responsiveness. In the end they simply sold more licences since the LT1 could now run 2bar just fine and more people started using it. I'll have to play with the E38 a little more and see how baro update works... I run MAF so haven't noticed a problem.

[10_SS]

been testing and the issue doesn't seem to happen when running in open loop only

All of my testing was done in Open Loop. So yes, rich after flash does happen in open loop as long as coolant temp is higher than 150-160F (starts at 150-160F coolant temp and is most noticeable when flashed and restarted hot, around 190F+ coolant temp).

[MikeOD]

What you got when you asked was the updated Tunercat version... I actually had to convince them there was a parameter avail and they looked for it and found it. They also gave me a few beta versions that relabeled all the axis to 2bar axis, which made it look like a true 2bar OS, however the scanner and other scanners still reported the 1bar scale so made it hard to tune. But very impressed with their responsiveness. In the end they simply sold more licences since the LT1 could now run 2bar just fine and more people started using it. I'll have to play with the E38 a little more and see how baro update works... I run MAF so haven't noticed a problem.

I remember the threads when you were looking for it...I remember trying to figure out the problems. John at TC is a good guy, always very very responsive.

[10_SS]

increasing the "accel pump shot" by lowering the injector size was another breakthrough... lol. But it ended up running perfect... perfect non-lean transitions between gears on the 14psi procharged M6 LT1 stock ECU.

Anybody know where the E38 LS3 Camaro types get it's Baro reading from? Is there one with the stockish tune? Im getting 0kpa Baro, and 0.00v Baro Voltage on the scanner running the 2bar enhanced OS on the car... I also don't see any pins labeled BARO in the wiring diagram...

[schpenxel]

Pretty sure they use the map reading prior to starting the engine as a baro reference. I could be totally wrong, of course. You could mess with the map sensor calibration values and see what happens to the baro value. Mine usually shows around 98-99kpa.

[mourat]

Yup I got the 2 bar map axis stuff around March and it was definitely a breakthrough to tell the ECU the injector is smaller rescale all the tables and that got rid of the lean spot when the throttle blade would open "accelerator pump shot" work around.

As for E38's their newest definition should have that BARO update option since they added it for me about 2 years ago now I have mine set not to update at WOT.

All of my testing was done in Open Loop. So yes, rich after flash does happen in open loop as long as coolant temp is higher than 150-160F (starts at 150-160F coolant temp and is most noticeable when flashed and restarted hot, around 190F+ coolant temp).

[10_SS]

Yup I got the 2 bar map axis stuff around March and it was definitely a breakthrough to tell the ECU the injector is smaller rescale all the tables and that got rid of the lean spot when the throttle blade would open "accelerator pump shot" work around.

As for E38's their newest definition should have that BARO update option since they added it for me about 2 years ago now I have mine set not to update at WOT.

Im not having a problem with Baro update at the moment, I was going to see if I would have problem however I'm saying I just get 0's for values... is this normal? Sounds like no. I know GM uses the MAP for non-boosted cars, but I should still be getting a value for Baro... right now I'm getting 0.0 solid so matter what MAP says, before start and after start... Maybe I'll flash back to my OEM 1bar tune see if Baro works.

[Michael_D]

Grrrrrrrr........ Happened to me in Open Loop, MAF cal yesterday. So much for me thinking I'm safe in open loop. After one flash, trims just stuck at -18.7 - indefinitely, until I just parked the car and let it sit for an hour. I drove around for a good thirty minutes, stopped an started the damn thing half a dozen times, nothing.

[edge04]

haven't tested this and wondering if anyone else has. Does the rich after flash still occur if letting the car sit for a long time, like overnight. So "flash, start 24 hours later" rich?

[10_SS]

haven't tested this and wondering if anyone else has. Does the rich after flash still occur if letting the car sit for a long time, like overnight. So "flash, start 24 hours later" rich?

it wont be "rich after flash", because IVT and coolant temp are room temp, so its rich but that's due to richer fuel requirements of a cold engine.

[MikeOD]

haven't tested this and wondering if anyone else has. Does the rich after flash still occur if letting the car sit for a long time, like overnight. So "flash, start 24 hours later" rich?

A few posts earlier it was pointed out that the problem seems to go away if the coolant temp is below 150F when you start the car...letting it sit overnight will make that happen unless you live in hell

[MikeOD]

it wont be "rich after flash", because IVT and coolant temp are room temp, so its rich but that's due to richer fuel requirements of a cold engine.

Yes, but that will be reported in the commanded EQ ratio and pulsewidth, so you could still compare it against wideband data and make tune corrections.

[edge04]

can be depending on what mood my wife is in

A few posts earlier it was pointed out that the problem seems to go away if the coolant temp is below 150F when you start the car...letting it sit overnight will make that happen unless you live in hell

[josh@lashway]

ive noticed the newer the car the worse the effect is, i did 3 2015 camaros this week and it got to the point were i only flashed each one once or twice because they would sit at -20% after the flash for a long time. very annoying when you are trying to finish more then one car a day.........

[edge04]

A GM tech at a local dealer told me that GM told them that after they re-flash a computer it needs to b driven for 10 miles or roughly 15 mins. He had no other information

[shoaf85]

We need real time tuning!!!!

[GHuggins]

A GM tech at a local dealer told me that GM told them that after they re-flash a computer it needs to b driven for 10 miles or roughly 15 mins. He had no other information

[MikeOD]

A GM tech at a local dealer told me that GM told them that after they re-flash a computer it needs to b driven for 10 miles or roughly 15 mins. He had no other information

Yeah...and that's all well and good until you have HUGE injectors and the thing is insanely rich due to the added pulsewidth...you kinda have to just start making dyno pulls or blowing donuts right away LOL.

[DRTWRK]

Has anyone found the reasoning for the apparent "rich after flash" condition?
I have an E38 and have flashed tune literally 100's of times prior and not experienced this. Recently installed ID1300's and enabling all tables applying to flex fuel. I have been tuning VE to get all fueling spot on for Gas before adding ethanol. I have my stoich table set at 14.68 up to about 20% temporarily to keep the percentage constant for tuning. Now every time I re-flash tune I get this very rich condition. Like has been stated in the earlier post, AFR will gradually swing back to normal after IVT get up to normal operating temps, several aggressive hits into PE and cycling key starts, etc. I have the custom OS with actual VE table and have not had any tuning problems prior to these latest changes.

I have searched extensively and found nothing on the High DI Enrich, "high drivability index fuel startup enrichment" table. ???

Also what is all effected when adjusting the Misc > EQ Ratio (Open Loop EQ Ratio Min. vs. ECT) Do these values represent a multiple to the main - EQ Ratio (Gas) Power enrichment table values? ie. If ECT temp is 176 and the value input into this table is 0.94 Would this equate to 94% of whatever value is in the PE tables and BE tables thus effectively leaning all values by 6%.
Can someone explain this table?