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Thread: General noob questions about LNF tuning

  1. #1
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    General noob questions about LNF tuning

    Hello all, I am new to this, still learning but very excited. I had a few things that i can't seem to figure out, hoping you guys could help me out.

    1) scanner config: i started from a config i found in one of the forums, i think it was gmtech's then modified it quite a bit. I dont understand the difference between "sensor" and "PID" variables. I think that the "sensor" variables are generalized names of the data in a certain PID. Data seems to be identical, so i switched my entire config to looking at PIDs, am i missing something here?

    2) On the LNF i notice 2 different PIDs for Airflow. MAF (sae) PID.16, which i assume is the reading of the MAF sensor. And there is another "VE Airflow" PID.2311, which i assumed is a MAP and IAT calculation of air flow, kinda like speed density does?
    a) My question is at part throttle, even low boost, those match very closely, however at WOT MAF reading seems higher than VE Air reading. Is this normal? does this imply that i have a boost leak? The only part on the car is a Injen upper charge pipe, that couldn't changed the VE enough to notice it in these measurements.
    b) which is the true airflow? should i follow MAF?

    3) I am trying to be mathematical about tuning this, it is my first tuning experience, and i don't particularly want to damage it. I am struggling to understand these "load" pids and these "load" axis in the calibrations. For instance, there is a "Air Load" PID.2322, then there's "Absolute Load" PID.67, then there's "Calc Load" Pid.4. and all are different. Then the calibration axis have some obscure "percent load" unit, and most of them are different.
    a) Which "load" variable are you guys using? I am leaning towards "air Load" PID.2322.
    b) Whichever load signal you guys use, "air Load" PID.2322 in my instance, I am assuming this is cylinder percent filling, which already accounts for Volumetric efficiency? Since at a MAP of 100kPa, PID.2322 is less than 100% i assume that's right, any input?

    Now to tuning.
    4) I've been reading up a couple books by Greg Banish. He talks about optimizing spark by running a "spark hook" test. Basically on a load bearing dyno, at a given RPM, and load, change spark and measure torque output, repeat for different speed & load. The name "spark hook" is from the idea that as time advance increases, torque increases, up to the point that it plateaus, then falls off due to knock. Apparently this looks like a "hook", i don't see it, but who am i to question Greg Banish.
    a) the question is, for a relatively stock LNF, did anyone try to find the optimum spark advance, for 93 octane for a few points? Is anyone willing to share such findings?

    5) cam phasing; from other threads i got the idea that during a warm idle, both cams are "parked", exhaust at -6 and intake at +10?
    a) does that imply that at idle the engine is at minimum overlap?
    b) as the exhaust cam value increases to a positive number, that means the exhaust cam "retards?
    c) as the intake cam values decrease to a negative number, that means that the intake cam "advances"?
    d) if the above are true, that means that if either (or both) cams move off parked, they both go towards increasing overlap? This seems a little different from some of the literature i've read that made it sound like usually both cams move both directions.

    6) My first attempt to tune was to take the stock tune and add all GMPP stage tune values that we have access to. This got my MAP as high as 248kPa, 21.9psi (MAP-baso) at 4000 rpm, 3rd gear pull, 24 deg C inlet air temp. I thought the GMPP stage kit boosts to around 20psi, did mine boost too high? or is that normal?

    Thank you for your patience with me, i'm hoping that eventually i'll catch up with you guys and be of added-value to the forum.

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    yes i plotted the entire table for a cai and full cat back on 91 pump. i have also done it for custom setups and secondary injection systems. it takes a few days to perform the test due to the amount of changes required per flash. we dont have real time tuning so it makes it extremely difficult. if you forget one change you ruined your test and have to flash and test it again.
    just forget it with the lnf you will waste valuable time.

    your questioning of the gmpp boost levels leads me to believe you dont fully grasp the amount of control that is active in the gmpp tune. the more stock you are the higher the boost i usually see due to efficiency.
    i dont like coming and crushing people the first post, but if your new you are looking way to far ahead and need to come back into basic ecu operation and control techniques.
    you must first learn what tables do what individually and then how they interact with each other. then you can make yourself a defaulted base file and start from scratch like many others here do.

    read through every tuning thread listed in my signature about 4-5 times. reading through them once doesnt help because some threads have information that will help the other threads become more easily understood. once you have finished we will help you from there. talk to you in a few days once you have been through all of them enough times.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner
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    I will say that most people (pro's included) tend to make tuning changes similar to that of the GMS1 tune. I will say that is a horrible idea. Use it to help learn along with the othre threads CSSOB said to read. Your goal should be to design all of your own tables and fully understand everything you did.

  4. #4
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    Hello all, thanks for the replies.
    Maybe i titled the thread wrong, although i'm new to tuning cars, I have an electrical engineering background, and have an idea of engines, physics, control systems, PID controllers, etc. I've been lurking around and reading old threads for months.
    CobaltOverBooster, I've read through most of the threads you reference, and I will go back and re-read them again. I have a basic idea of how torque management works, and that the controller will adjust boost to output a calculated desired torque. I was asking if my observed boost is in the realm of what others have observed a stock vehicle do, that's why i also included air temp. Just trying to make sure that my starting point is the same as other people out there, and that i don't need to go out hunting for a reason why my car thinks it needs more boost to generate same torque as other cars.

    Mike, I am using the GMPP tune to learn what the values do to the vehicle, since i consider both tunes stock and stage kit as "safe". My current tune is significantly different from either stock or GMPP tune.

    Seems that nobody cared to help me with any of the questions, are they considered too petty to be worth answering?
    Thanks for your help.

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    yes your numbers are within the very shifty ranges of the gmpp kit.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  6. #6
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    Do skme more reading and I lromise all of the questions you've asked will be answered and answered in detail. I think some of the other stuff you'll stumble on is a good read and honestly I think you need to read more and play more with the tables before we answer anything. Not trying to be rude just I think it'll help you more in the long run.