Because you are able to learn his knowledge, you paid him to get your car running top notch...I am sure that most tuners would give you a base tune for you to tune off of...but those lil secrets are what makes the best the best.... It's just like a professional photographer, they keep the proofs, and if you want them you pay lots more money...
Do you not consider $200 or more for a tune "a lot more money"?Originally Posted by lxlaw
Let's say you decide to get the free tunes for life tune and pay very little for a tune. You basically get 3 tunes and a handheld for $399. You aren't going to get a quality tune.
If you go with a quality tune, you are going to pay for the handheld and the tune on top of that. One is paying "lots more money" for a much more refined tune.
If tuners don't want their work to be seen then as Eric has mentioned, they can manipulate the OSID so that if you try to pull it off, it will not read properly by HP Tuners. This is fine for a customer base who doesn't know how to tune and would rather leave it in the hands of others. This is the majority of owners out there and why there is no real threat to their business. The tuner's screaming the loudest and generating FUD around HP Tuners are doing so unnecessarily and really are painting themselves into a corner.
My belief is just the opposite and am a firm believer in transparency. If I put a good tune together on my car I don't mind sharing that with others however I am not in this to make money.
I'm talking about $650-$1000 custom tunes....they probably aren't going to lock up a can tune....
But lots of guys are in this for a living...this is their lively hood, and there are lots of secrets that make them the best....there are top tuners out there that have developed stuff that could keep them ahead of the pack and other top tuners would love to have...either way...I can understand them locking tubes....JMHO...
$1000 custom tune would likely be for a very custom build, and most likely would not even work on another car.
Eric Brooks
HP Tuners, LLC
Agreed...I believe that those tunes should be able to be locked and not read...most tunes no one would load from one car to another, but people would look at the changes made for their own tuning gain...
I am glad people like you are out there helping us out...but I believe there is a time and place to have people work protected...
We are adding a tuner lock for the Ford stuff, it just hasn't happened yet as other things like the scanner are priority.
Eric Brooks
HP Tuners, LLC
Eric, I am not worried about locking my stuff, I read other peoples tunes when I can so I can learn...or maybe see what they have in there that is causing an issue...I can not see me needing to lock my stuff... I am just defending why some tuners do...I can see the logic...I can also see a liability to protect yourself...imagine someone messing with your tune and they blow their car up, you know people would not ever want to be called a dumbass for blowing up their own stuff...they are gonna blame the tuner....
The moment they start changing the tune and potentially blow something up that liability and onus is on them, not the original tuner. That's the risk they take when they want to learn to do it on their own.
I am just not following your logic and it is probably because I believe in transparency. Look at the GM side of tuning. It is much different there meaning more open and transparent. I don't see tuner's going out of business. There is a lot more collaboration going on which results in better tunes for all which relates to what I highlighted in your post.
What I have seen on the Ford side of things is people being charged for a "good tune" and in reality it is garbage. This needs to stop and I believe there are some shops who don't want to be caught with their pants down.
The good tuners are all very close to one another. I haven't seen see one hold secrets that trump all. Some like to make that claim but in reality the cars running their tunes are nothing special at the track.
I like the environment, and ford or chevy has been the same...I bought HP because people like my Ford tunes and are wanting me to tune their GM... I'm not great by any means...but rather thorough...and am pleased by the togetherness, but even in the Ford world everyone I have dealt with has been good to me....some people are in it for money, I don't have to, I just love doing it...if I had more time to do tuning only, I am sure I would be a lot better...I love the community here and am pleased with the software...looking forward to picking you all brains...
Same here sir.I like the environment, and ford or chevy has been the same...I bought HP because people like my Ford tunes and are wanting me to tune their GM... I'm not great by any means...but rather thorough...and am pleased by the togetherness, but even in the Ford world everyone I have dealt with has been good to me....some people are in it for money, I don't have to, I just love doing it...if I had more time to do tuning only, I am sure I would be a lot better...I love the community here and am pleased with the software...looking forward to picking you all brains...
This is a topic in the GM world. With ecu's which DO require black magic (LNF, for example), a lot of "pro" tuners were doing minor random changes for years without knowing what they were doing but still charging people $500. When people on the forums began figuring out how to properly manipulate the ecu, those pros started copy/pasting into their tunes and claiming as their own. Worst part was that ecu uses hundreds of reference tables. Trying to change one by itself instead of all of them together can cause major issues.
Moral of the story - figure out how to tune it and start on your own from scratch. Use others as reference, but don't trust their work as reliable. Most of all, work together to figure it out and share info on HOW TO not actual values. Don't turn it into a pissing contest or shit talk, but be open with learning from others. Otherwise, you'll end up driving off the people that do know what they're doing and lose a valuable source of information.
I'm just starting on these coyote ecu's. Should start figuring it out soon and maybe be able to contribute to Boss discussions once I understand what's going on with these.
Last edited by codename Bil Doe; 08-21-2014 at 11:33 PM.
Very well said.
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