21.0 AFR but smells rich? Just getting started

[aldrichg9]

I am just getting started with my fresh rebuild and I am starting over tuning this as I never got anywhere before.
I bought the truck the way it is (before I had to rebuild it) mods in sig but here it is again
6.0, .030 milled 317 heads, Isky 218/218 110 lsa 47 degrees overlap
Marine 8.1 injectors (I Know - data...)
NNBS truck intake, 90mm edelbrock TB
Pacesetter LT's


I am starting by tuning VE in idle areas and right off the bat things don't seem right (same reason I gave up last time but now I am asking for help)

First- I can drive the truck around on the stock tune and it runs ~ok but it stinks to high hell and I swear it gets 5 mpg's

I followed the instruction for SD only mode.
Then removed fueling from the 0-1200 rpm columns of the VE

On startup it started just fine but then was halfass running after a few seconds.
The log indicates AFR over 21.0 but the exhaust smells rich.
I played with timing a bit to no avail.
Also stabbed the throttle a few times and all it does it die (so does this tell me it really is super lean?)

After the first log I pasted the AFR error into the VE and the AFR came down some to ~18 but the it smelled super rich.

I have played with EOIT before and read the entire long EOIT thread twice but saw absolutely zero change even when I drastically changed the numbers to try to get an effect out of it.

I used the injector spreadsheet to create some numbers for me (accuracy ?!?!) can't buy good injectors. out - of - money

What am I missing here guys?

Stock Log
stock log.hpl

Lowered VE in idle areas
SDStarter.hpt
Log.hpl
Idle-Airflow(1) ve wideband - idle.cfg

Here is a log after I added to EOIT until I got as far as 1 reference period and saw no change
eoit.hpl

[mecanicman]

Not sure your actually in sd. Not sure your wideband is configured correctly. Any particular reason your running open loop? I'll post a file tomorrow.

[PICNIC_GEORGE]

Is your MAF set to first error and unplugged? Sounds like it might be running in MAF mode with no MAF.

[MikeOD]

You're not at 21:1...the engine wouldn't even run at 21:1.

If you unhook the wideband from the MPVI does HPTuners still show 21:1?

Don't worry about EOIT until the tune is close...until you're close there's no sense in even thinking about that...put that back to 100% stock.

[mecanicman]

I have made some changes to your file. Use the compare function and have a look. I have turned closed loop back on, use the short term fuel trims to adjust your ve table. I have also made changes to make sure you go into SD. When it goes into closed loop see what your wideband says, pretty sure your not configured correctly. Changed your injector data, if you still have factory fuel pressure regulator this is more correct than what you had.

[aldrichg9]

Thanks fellas for all of the replies.

mecanicman:
I thought I had to be in open loop to avoid anything affecting fueling aside from VE
I logged a cold start (relatively, sat for 9 hours in 90 degree ambient)
I unplugged the MAF about halfway through, didn't see much change,
But I did notice a change when I'm guessing it went Closed Loop?!?

I greatly appreciate the time it took for you to work on that file, and wish I better understood whats happening
Please see attached log. Do I need to be logging anything additional?


MikeOD:
If I unhook the WB from the mvpi it shows 11.39

Picnic_george:
I did not unplug the MAF - didn't think it was necessary if properly failed


Hi there2 LOG.hpl

[mecanicman]

Need to modify your config. Go back to default imperial, delete mass air flow, long term fuel trim 1 and 2, and fuel trim cell. Add commanded afr and your wideband. Go for a drive when its totally warmed up. Smooth throttle transistions when accelerating or holding speed. Treat gas pedal like off switch if your going to decel, take foot right off any time slowing down. What wideband are you running, appears to be lc1? Post up your formula and what the lc1 is programmed to output right now.

Need to leave your maf plugged in unless you have installed a seperate iat, yours is currently contained in the maf. The tune I posted will make sure you are in sd.

[PICNIC_GEORGE]

Need to leave your maf plugged in unless you have installed a seperate iat, yours is currently contained in the maf.

Picnic_george:
I did not unplug the MAF - didn't think it was necessary if properly failed

I always unplug the MAF. Depinning a 5 wire maf is not that difficult, and you don't have to worry about any transient data messing with your tune(I've had it happen). I'm not saying that is problem. As for your AFR I would think your wideband is not functioning properly. That cam is super small, the car should start up and run, makes me wonder if the issue isn't mechanical.

Here is a thread I found regaurding it,
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...l=1#post347436

[aldrichg9]

The truck does run.
I can drive it around just fine.

Thanks for the thread link I had not seen that before.

I will plug it back in and log some tonight but Friday night I leave for Bradenton, FL
and won't be back to the truck for a week.

[PICNIC_GEORGE]

Does your WB have a gauge on it? What's it reading? Check the voltage going into your i/o and check your grounds.

Also: You shouldn't have to take a bunch of fuel out. Make sure all your cylinders are firing and 1(or more) isn't pouring raw fuel out of it.

[mecanicman]

I always unplug the MAF. Depinning a 5 wire maf is not that difficult, and you don't have to worry about any transient data messing with your tune(I've had it happen).[/url]

The way the file I posted is configured the maf can have no effect, its fine to be plugged in.

[aldrichg9]

Here is a screenshot of my LC-1 setup.
Is this what you meant when you asked about how it is programmed?





Plugged MAF back in.
Switched to default imperial config and added the items you said.
I drove around for a bit.
I live pretty much in town so its a long one with some stop and go.
Can you let me know what you see?
Here is log and config.

Default Imperial + WB.cfg
Hi There Log 3.hpl

[mecanicman]

Need a screen shot of your wideband setup in config, does not transfer over. Apply your stft data to ve table and do it again. You will need to temporarily program your lc1 to 7.35=2.5 and 22.39=2.5. Set your wideband temporarily to v/1+0. watch the data in the histogram with the average funtion. You want it to say 2.500, adjust the +0 value up or down to make it equal 2.500, write down this value. Vehicle must be running when you do this.

[aldrichg9]

When I set up the WB in the config I used the default lc-1 setup that came up when I right-clicked
in the table and picked my WB.
When I right click again I can only insert or delete.
So..: I have nothing to show you there as I did not enter it.

Maybe I should enter it manually.
I initially looked a that but saw that lc-1 was already an option and used it...

I'm hoping that when I return from vacation around Sunday the 6th you will still be willing to help.

[aldrichg9]

Need a screen shot of your wideband setup in config, does not transfer over. Apply your stft data to ve table and do it again. You will need to temporarily program your lc1 to 7.35=2.5 and 22.39=2.5. Set your wideband temporarily to v/1+0. watch the data in the histogram with the average funtion. You want it to say 2.500, adjust the +0 value up or down to make it equal 2.500, write down this value. Vehicle must be running when you do this.

I'm currently feeling a bit dense - It took me two days to figure out what you were talking about.
I never did any of the proper wideband setup - just used the default from hptuners.

Here is a config that I plugged in the proper formulas for my LC-1 including how I programmed the WB controller

Default Imperial + WB.cfg


I cannot adjust to 2.5 the way you suggested however because I am not at the truck and won't be until a week from tomorrow.
The logs sure do look alot different with this config though...

[mecanicman]

Sounds like your on the right track, adjust for your voltage offset and try again when you get home.

[aldrichg9]

I tried setting the LC-1 to output 2.5 volts. Went I changed the config to v/1+0 the histo just shows 2.5
So I set the LC-1 back to 0v=7.35 and 5v=22.39
Then I connected the guage that is supposedly set for that
Then used the numbers from the WB offset spreadsheet and adjusted to offset until the WB reading on the table matched the gauge.

Attached please find the tune, config, and log that I used to gather some data.
I just don't know enough to read what I am looking at but...
Am I at least on the right track?



Hi there2.hpt
Idle-Airflow(1) wide band from spreadsheet.cfg
07 06 14 log1.hpl

[mecanicman]

I would suggest redoing the 2.5 v excercise but programming histo to show 3 deciaml points. It makes a differance and is worth the time it takes to get right.

[aldrichg9]

What will I do then with the numbers from that offset?

To get to where I have it now I am using volts/0.332 + 7.55

[blownbluez06]

I'm not sure why you removed every item relevant to your histograms, but it seems that your 02's agreed with your lean condition at idle.