ID1000 injector constant help

[DaFlyinSkwirl]

I don't post here often but this has me completely confused.

ID1000 injectors

the car is running an LSJ with a TVS blower with a 2.7" pulley.
It's run by a 2004 cavalier PCM. It uses TPS vs RPM for main fueling
I'm using a 1 bar MAP sensor for spark and idle fueling


the PCM has limited parameters, and the only input for injector information is the 'injector constant'.
I scaled using my old constant for 60# injectors and the car refuses to run and idle.

my injector constant history

stock constant for 19# : 0.17800
constant for 440cc: 0.10215
constant for 60#: 0.07151
constant for ID1000: 0.0455 (this one does not/ barely runs. it is not driveable)

as the injectors get bigger the constant gets smaller, so that much makes sense... but I'm getting extremely lean AFR readings when I do manage to get it to idle (18:1)
I bumped up my idle tables 30 percent and the car will idle, but any throttle input stalls it out.

I feel like my trouble is centered around the constant. It HAS to be wrong...

[cobaltssoverbooster]

i dont idle id1k's under 1000 rpm

[Speedytec]

some rough calcs give me 0.04428??
(depends on how accurate the other values are...)
Can imagine you need some more inj. parameters to dial these big boys in. And a boost referenced fuel system maybe?

[DaFlyinSkwirl]

boost referenced would be ideal... I'm going to fight this thing to get it to work tho I can already tell.

I changed my VE offset to 80% (minimum value is now 80, max is 180)
my coarse boost fuel adjustment (IPW vs Vac multiplier) is now 1.3 in 0kpa vacuum (boost)

the car is showing lean AFR readings but acting like it's drowning... I can only guess that it's happening so quickly I'm not seeing the readings... or something.

when I lean it out it runs better, but then I'm lean.

I have the car running and driving on a constant of 0.07200
I have my idle tables up 20% to get a decent idle

I scaled my remaining tables back down 15% so I'm only +5% total VE right now
histograms keep telling me the car wants more fuel
I'm going to have to add IPW vs Vac slowly... when I go from 1.3 to 1.4 the car gets super pissed off... I guess it's too much of a jump

with the 60s, jumps like that were ok.. I guess with the 1000cc there's a much finer line to walk.


If it gives me much more grief, I'm going to throw a megasquirt controller at it.. the P11 PCM is just too finnicky with injectors this size and I NEED the fuel

[Speedytec]

Maybe daft, but why all the trouble and not run an lsj ecu on your engine? Can run tha without VATS in "stand alone" modeand keep the original ecu for sensor/DASH readout

[Area47]

i dont idle id1k's under 1000 rpm

you can get them to hold rock solid at 500rpms on e85 with the stock LSJ ecm.

[cobaltssoverbooster]

we never tried it on pump gas but the methanol got pissy at 850 so i went 1000 and never went back.
nice to no the flow will actually make it that low even though its an absurd idle rpm range. Nice job.

[timichaud]

I have ID1000 on L61 cavalier m62 and it's a pain to tune....I don't know if it's every cavy but in open loop I make it running at 14.0 afr at idle for an exemple and after a normal road test with some peaks in PE mode when the car return to idle it's now running at 10-11AFR

The same problem with every setups..

some test if I remember it goes like this:
Constant stock, IPW mult to 1.0, VE Offset about 38
Constant half stock 0.8900, IPW 1.0, VE Offset 100
Constant 0.89 again, IPW 2.0, VE Offset 50
Constant for ID1000 about 0.0445, IPW 2.0, VE Offset 100

All setup run good at startup close to 14-15AFR and after some pull the car idle at 10-11AFR

[DaFlyinSkwirl]

ok so here's a big update for you guys.

I got tired of the weird readings, so I decided to use the injector constant that I'm SUPPOSED to have and just rape my VE tables in order to get the car to work.

the constant is the starting point for all fueling calculations, so I can't fudge it and expect the car to run good. any time I touched boost it would get all screwy



I changed the constant to 0.04507
VE offset is 80%
tables I bumped WAY up:

idle tables.
lowest values are 130, highest are 155

low rpm single and double VE tables. lowest values are 110, highest are 177

high rpm VE tables. lowest values are 100 highest are 180

I had stalling issues when clutching in, so I bumped my low rpm coast down up as well. lowest value is 130, highest is 160

the values are just to give an idea of how much overall I increased the tables. when I upped my VE offset, I may have reduced some of them.. I've been going up and down a lot trying to get the AFR acceptable and didn't save every individual generation when I'd make a change.


my IPW vs VAC multiplier currently is 1.6 in 0kPa of vac (boost).
I didn't get to see my AFR because my laptop went to sleep, but the car FINALLY pulled decently. Had a few hiccups in different loads and rpms but I'm feeling confident now that the constant is correct.

as a word of warning:
I did have an issue with the injectors de-seating from the fuel rail and spewing fuel all over my engine.
the ID1000s don't have grooves for clips to hold them on to the rail.
for some reason, they would slip into the plastic injector cups and fall out of the rail spewing fuel all over the place. not a squirt... more like a running faucet

I got some advice to use an o-ring on the body of the injector (not the sealing o-ring at the tip, a 15.3mm o-ring on the actual body of the injector) to keep it from pushing through the injector cups.
it works great so far. no issues.


I was going to do a P12 swap in my car, and even fabbed a bracket for the throttle by wire, but decided against it and sold everything.
I'm trying to avoid adding more electronics to my car... I want it to work with the PCM and just.. WORK.
the P11 is stupid, but it does the job ok. I just needed to figure out what I needed to do to get the car to be happy(ish).

Starting is a bitch though. I'm still working on that. I have to floor it to get it to kick over. Warm or cold, doesn't matter. it will not start on it's own.

[timichaud]

Same problem for startup... But only warm.. Cold its starting like a bone stock car

[imphat0260]

PJ, I have got ID1000s to idle/run great on using the LD9/SC Reflash.... Sucks you can't flash that on it... I can't believe your VE needs raped that much...

[yoecotec]

Hi PJ,
the injector constant are displacement (L) per injector flow (g/sec). I made this long time ago it may be useful : http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showth...Injector-Const

The displacement of the LSJ are not the same as L61 and what are your fuel rail pressure ? A quick look on your constant 0.045.. seem to be a little high.