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Thread: NGK AFX accuracy

  1. #1
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    NGK AFX accuracy

    Some of you had your AFX modified.
    I'm curious how they work after the modification? And how does the accuracy compare to before?

    I'm also wondering if any of you have used the test gas dyno guys use to test accuracy?
    I believe there is a 13:1 and a lower value as well.

    A good friend tested his LC1, and AFX with the 13.1:1 gas and found quite a discrepancy. Up to .7 AFR too rich.

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  2. #2
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    What do you mean modified? As in the input PID? I verified the voltage from 0-5 in hptuners to ensure it was accurate. I'm also using the ngk sensor and not the bosch. You should verify both against a professional wideband. That would probably give you your answer.

  3. #3
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    Guys were sending their units back the the manufacturer for updates.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by RonSSnova View Post
    Guys were sending their units back the the manufacturer for updates.
    I think most were sending in their AFX's to display lamda on the screens vs. showing AFR.

  5. #5
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    Correct. They also extended the range.

  6. #6
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    The new NGK unit is out now.

  7. #7
    HP Tuners Owner Keith@HPTuners's Avatar
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    I run two older style NGK AFX's in my race car. One in each bank.

    They are .5 AFR different and its something I've been working on figuring out why.

    Perhaps I'll try the new units to see if they're more accurate.
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  8. #8
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    My ngk unit died and they discontinued the gen 1 and support for it so I have been waiting on the new one. I run one of them in one bank and the FAST dual unit in the other and compare them.... the NGK was better but I have the FAST still so have been running it

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners View Post
    I run two older style NGK AFX's in my race car. One in each bank.

    They are .5 AFR different and its something I've been working on figuring out why.

    Perhaps I'll try the new units to see if they're more accurate.
    Swap sensors left to right. Then swap boxes. Then swap harnesses. See where the switch occurs. I have five AFXs (well, AFM-1600s) in my rotation, and each one reads within 1% on the same vehicle. You may need to free air calibrate them too. Are you using the NTK sensors?

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  10. #10
    HP Tuners Owner Keith@HPTuners's Avatar
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    Yea, i haven't had time but I understand the process. It's just time consuming. First order of business though is to have the injectors flow benched.

    I'm pretty sure I'm using the NTK sensors.

    I think I may just order the new NGK units though and start from there and use the ones I have in our lemon car.

    Oh, so on my race car I melted the harness plug where the O2 sensor plugins into the master harness. We can't separate the plugs anymore. I called up NGK asking if I could just buy those plastic connectors so I could re-pin the harnesses. Nope. I have to buy a new harness + O2 sensor. Might as well buy a new unit. Oh well.
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  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner blownbluez06's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners View Post
    Yea, i haven't had time but I understand the process. It's just time consuming. First order of business though is to have the injectors flow benched.

    I'm pretty sure I'm using the NTK sensors.

    I think I may just order the new NGK units though and start from there and use the ones I have in our lemon car.

    Oh, so on my race car I melted the harness plug where the O2 sensor plugins into the master harness. We can't separate the plugs anymore. I called up NGK asking if I could just buy those plastic connectors so I could re-pin the harnesses. Nope. I have to buy a new harness + O2 sensor. Might as well buy a new unit. Oh well.
    I'll buy your old one with the melted harness if you wish to sell it with the damage considered in the price. Let me know.
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  12. #12
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners View Post
    Yea, i haven't had time but I understand the process. It's just time consuming. First order of business though is to have the injectors flow benched.

    I'm pretty sure I'm using the NTK sensors.

    I think I may just order the new NGK units though and start from there and use the ones I have in our lemon car.

    Oh, so on my race car I melted the harness plug where the O2 sensor plugins into the master harness. We can't separate the plugs anymore. I called up NGK asking if I could just buy those plastic connectors so I could re-pin the harnesses. Nope. I have to buy a new harness + O2 sensor. Might as well buy a new unit. Oh well.
    $20 and a hammer will get you back going. Ballenger Motorsports sells the connectors, and you can just smash the melted plug to get it apart. I've done it once or twice (or four times).

    The new NGK wideband is not made by ECM. I wouldn't expect as good of accuracy (although it's unproven).

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    $20 and a hammer will get you back going. Ballenger Motorsports sells the connectors, and you can just smash the melted plug to get it apart. I've done it once or twice (or four times).

    The new NGK wideband is not made by ECM. I wouldn't expect as good of accuracy (although it's unproven).
    Is that right? Who makes the new version then?
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  14. #14
    Senior Tuner LSxpwrdZ's Avatar
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    Yes it is right. I asked ECM when I was on the phone with them a few weeks ago and they said no. I'll keep rocking my old AFX/AFM1600 units.

    Also that test gas method is rediculous. Most all of Innovates products kill sensors prematurely and do not stay reading accurately vs various exhaust temps. I often tune cars that have the widebands already installed in the car and they question why I still put mine in the exhaust then I show the descrepancy while tuning on the dyno. My V1 NGK's have never let me down.

    Keith hit up Ballenger Motorsports for the plastic connectors. I've melted half a dozen myself and keep those little connectors in my tool box just for that reason.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Swap sensors left to right. Then swap boxes. Then swap harnesses. See where the switch occurs. I have five AFXs (well, AFM-1600s) in my rotation, and each one reads within 1% on the same vehicle. You may need to free air calibrate them too. Are you using the NTK sensors?
    Can you actually call ECM and order an AFM-1600? I don't see it on their website?

  16. #16
    HP Tuners Owner Keith@HPTuners's Avatar
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    I just picked up two NGK AFRM's that I'll be putting into the car. We'll see which one of my AFX's was off, or if my car is a piece of crap.

    It appears that I'll also have to add the AFRM to the list of predefined wide bands in VCM Scanner.
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  17. #17
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Keith, do your AFX widebands use NTK or Bosch sensors? Wanna sell them?

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  18. #18
    HP Tuners Owner Keith@HPTuners's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure they use the NTK's.

    First I'd like to find out what the discrepency is between the banks. Then I might take one and run it in our lemons car and keep the other as a spare.
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  19. #19
    HP Tuners Owner Keith@HPTuners's Avatar
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    FYI, I've added the AFRM as a built in AUX input to 2.24
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  20. #20
    HP Tuners Owner Keith@HPTuners's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keith@HPTuners View Post
    I run two older style NGK AFX's in my race car. One in each bank.

    They are .5 AFR different and its something I've been working on figuring out why.

    Perhaps I'll try the new units to see if they're more accurate.
    Swapped the units between banks. It appears that one of my banks is just running richer than the other. Could be a small leak in the 5->1 merge.
    We got this guy Not Sure, ...