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Thread: Car starts then dies

  1. #1

    Question Car starts then dies

    Car is:

    2001 Trans am
    Auto 4l60e
    TSP 224r Cam with springs
    241 heads ported I believe
    42# Green top Racing injectors
    Full bolton exhaust

    Problem started after the 42# injectors were installed. Dialed in the right offsets and settings for these injectors, car will not start at all with the MAF plugged in, had to fail the maf and disconnect it and run it in speed density to get it to start. Now when it starts up, it starts up strong and healthy but within 10 seconds or so it slowly lowers rpms and kills itself. hitting the throttle at all will kill the car. I've noticed that as the rpms slowly go down, the Map sensor reading starts going up from 60kpa from start up to 90kpa before it dies (shouldn't it be around 30-45ish kpa on idle?). Does this point to a vacuum leak? Also it popped up with a P0200 code and saw that the back connector power wire is frayed on the injector in the back on the passenger side, I will get a connector and splice a new one in Sunday. Wideband is not installed just yet.

    I've posted up the log of the car starting then dying along with the Tune file (this file is a stock file and I modified for the injector change). critique it, criticize it, let me know what is bad and what is good. I just want my friends car to run right finally for once so he can enjoy the car.
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    Last edited by Kaganader; 05-10-2014 at 08:18 PM.

  2. #2
    So no response, guess that means the tune file is perfect? Lol

  3. #3
    Fixed the connector, still had this problem, throwing p0200 along with dying within 10 seconds. put back in the stock injectors and it runs perfectly no codes. Another friend of mine got these same injectors also recently and ran into this too. Both bought these same injectors on ebay. Seven injectors had 4 holes while one even with the same identification number as the rest had only 2 holes. Thanks.

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner
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    Sounds like you need to send those back.
    Some LS2 injectors would work dandy, and you can get solid data for them. Not real sure they fit the rails and manifold though.

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    your idle is rich as hell look at your IPW needs to be half of that, also make sure your injector data is correct
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  6. #6
    Senior Tuner Russ K's Avatar
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    Your stock injectors are more than enough for your mods.

    Russ Kemp

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by RonSSnova View Post
    Sounds like you need to send those back.
    Some LS2 injectors would work dandy, and you can get solid data for them. Not real sure they fit the rails and manifold though.
    Thanks for the tip, ls2 would be a perfect match for his setup. didn't think of that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    your idle is rich as hell look at your IPW needs to be half of that, also make sure your injector data is correct
    No matter what I did, it would stay running rich till it died, it was throwing a po200 with those injectors, but did not throw that code on the stock injectors. I used the injector data from Greg dvd I have for these 42# injectors. Someone else I know bought the same injectors on ebay and had 100% the same problem. I'm leaning towards the injectors he bought are bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by Russ K View Post
    Your stock injectors are more than enough for your mods.

    Russ Kemp
    He is revving it out to 6600rpms and right at 6600rpm in the log he is hitting 102-104% IDC based on the log of the pull. I don't like to push injectors past 80% IDC and seeing these go to 100+ makes my skin crawl. it is also hitting 98-101kpa, 39.5-41lb/min on the pull.

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaganader View Post
    I don't like to push injectors past 80% IDC
    Why?

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    Why?
    Many different car platforms I tune are boosted applications, so its become more of a caution to give some room in case of an overboost situation, wastegate line comes off etc; High impedance which are in these cars produce more heat with there saturated signal, longer the injectors are open the more heat that 12v signal will be producing, in comparison to low impedance. why run the risk of the injector not being able to open and close quickly enough, which causes the injector to float half open. Plus why get the injectors close to going static? it got to have an appropriate amount of time for the deadtime, hence why I do not like to push past 80% IDC (16ms/20ms= 80% IDC leaving 4ms for deadtime).
    Last edited by Kaganader; 05-13-2014 at 01:03 PM.

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaganader View Post
    Many different car platforms I tune are boosted applications, so its become more of a caution to give some room in case of an overboost situation, wastegate line comes off etc; High impedance which are in these cars produce more heat with there saturated signal, longer the injectors are open the more heat that 12v signal will be producing, in comparison to low impedance. why run the risk of the injector not being able to open and close quickly enough, which causes the injector to float half open. Plus why get the injectors close to going static? it got to have an appropriate amount of time for the deadtime, hence why I do not like to push past 80% IDC (16ms/20ms= 80% IDC leaving 4ms for deadtime).
    I know how IDC is calculated. I was asking because I was actually expecting the "saturation" comment which is bogus. Everybody thinks 80% is some arbitrary limit where the injector won't be damaged if it stays under. The injector actually only needs about a 0.75ms reset with each pulse, and there's already a hard coded 0.8ms reset time in the GM ECMs.

    Over 80% is an unsubstantiated fear that gets propagated for reasons unknown to me. Trust me, you won't hurt the injector. Now atmospheric changes and changes in airflow are another story.
    Last edited by DSteck; 05-13-2014 at 01:40 PM.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
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    Just say no to bull s***.
    IF YOU WANT HELP, POST A FILE!

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    I know how IDC is calculated. I was asking because I was actually expecting the "saturation" comment which is actually bogus. Everybody thinks 80% is some arbitrary limit where the injector won't be damaged if it stays under. The injector actually only needs about a 0.75ms reset with each pulse, and there's actually a hard coded 0.8ms reset time in the GM ECMs.

    Over 80% is an unsubstantiated fear that gets propagated for reasons unknown to me. Trust me, you won't hurt the injector. Now atmospheric changes and changes in airflow are another story.
    Ah I did not know that about the hard code in the GM ecu. I'm so used to tuning that into standalone/diy ecu and opensource ecu where everything is changeable. is this .8ms only for the bosch ev1 injectors used as oem with 12ohm @14v? (I know the 450cc/42lb mitsubishi injectors require .69ms @ 10.7ohm at 14v with the resister box ) Also is that hard code reset for deadtime calculated in IDC% in the vcm scanner?
    Last edited by Kaganader; 05-13-2014 at 01:50 PM.