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Thread: Cherry red headers

  1. #1
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    Cherry red header caused by faulty TPS

    Long story short my procharged Camaro has sat all winter and when I fired it up I noticed the headers were glowing at idle. I did some logs and pulled the tune and I just want someones opinon if it's in the tune or if I should be looking at another issue. My tuner offered to look at it but due to moving and work I don't have the time to bring the car to them.

    In the logs I did use the VCM to command and hold 22 degrees of timing to see if the changes had any effect on the situation to me they appear to but the car never ran bad or had any issues at all.

    Setup is

    Forged 402 10:! compression, L92 heads, 226/246 Cam, F1A procharger 12lbs, 1-7/8th headers, Stock Exhaust, t56


    Just looking for someone's experience if the tune needs work still or if I should suspect a mechanical issue with the car.

    UPDATED SEE POST #20
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by SmokedOutZ28; 05-18-2014 at 10:19 PM.

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Try advancing the hell out of timing at idle and see if it goes away. Your reluctor may have spun.

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  3. #3
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    I did set timing at 22 degrees with the vcm controls and the glow appeared to go away.

    1st initial start up in the log timing was between 10-15 degrees.

    How do you determine if the reluctor spun?

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    Take it apart. Or, if it needs abnormally high spark advance, that's a good indicator.

    10-15* for idle timing on that setup is pretty low.

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  5. #5
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    I've also had TB air leaks cause the idle speed over/under timing tables to pull timing trying to control high idle speed. Especially if your IAC is already at zero. Make sure there are no new air leaks since last time.
    Jaime

  6. #6
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    Ok I will look into that as well.

    Dsteck- I noticed that my phone put a S after header.... The only header that glows completely is the drivers side the passenger side barley changed color.

  7. #7
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    Passenger side



    Drivers side


  8. #8
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    When you run so lean headers tend to glow . And why the injector flow is 100 ? Put back the stock the injector offset, pulse and retune.

  9. #9
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    The tune that is in it now is from the tuner. I am no expert at the program so I am at the mercy of the people who know how. The injectors are FIC 1000cc with a boost ref regulator with the running idle pressure @ 43 psi maybe the will and can explain the injector settings.

  10. #10
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    Well, that is one red header! Pass side looks red too, but just the rear two.
    Injector numbers are correct.

    Because it ran fine before putting it away, I wouldn't suspect the tune. Unless it was doing this and you didn't notice, which I doubt.
    Bad air leak at the manifold sounds viable to me as well.
    I would also check the fuel pressure, make sure its what you think it is. Trims are pulling a lot of fuel......
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonSSnova View Post
    Well, that is one red header! Pass side looks red too, but just the rear two.
    Injector numbers are correct.

    Because it ran fine before putting it away, I wouldn't suspect the tune. Unless it was doing this and you didn't notice, which I doubt.
    Bad air leak at the manifold sounds viable to me as well.
    I would also check the fuel pressure, make sure its what you think it is. Trims are pulling a lot of fuel......
    It honestly could of been and I never noticed. I probably wouldn't of noticed this time if it wasent for the fact I had my hood open in the garage and had to close it to pull the car outside where I usually let it idle.

    the last issue I had with the car was it idling high when coming to a stop or at random times when starting it the car would go from 1000 rpms to 1500rpms the tuner suspected the fuel regulator being bad so it was replaced and I drove it a few times before first snow fall.

    Fuel pressure running is slightly over 40psi at the output side of the regulator according to the gauge.

    I will check for leaks at the intake and tb and try to use a mechanical timing light to verify timing.

  12. #12
    Advanced Tuner JamesLinder's Avatar
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    With headers this red, you need to realize you are going to destroy your motor if you do not figure this out before driving it.
    You will melt pistons, rings, valves, etc if this is not fixed. Retarded timing at idle can do this. I would quit messing with
    it and take it to a professional shop if I were you.

  13. #13
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    I have also seen a valve lash/preload issue cause this if the exhaust valves are not closing all of the way.
    Jaime

  14. #14
    Advanced Tuner JamesLinder's Avatar
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    If someone who did not know how to adjust your rocker arms and cranked them down far beyond
    what would be reasonable, however nearly everyone knows how to adjust hydraulic rockers.
    Quote Originally Posted by ElecTech View Post
    I have also seen a valve lash/preload issue cause this if the exhaust valves are not closing all of the way.

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    Huh? LS rockers are non adjustable.

  16. #16
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    I would enable the Adaptive Idle Airflow settings, then you will probably have to do some Idle Airflow tuning. Its idling higher then commanded and cant use the IAC valve to help, so its trying to do it all with timing hence the low timing IMO.

    Also, how does that car sound with stock exhaust? I might go this route plus a cutout soon.
    Last edited by david_viny; 04-26-2014 at 06:00 PM.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesLinder View Post
    If someone who did not know how to adjust your rocker arms and cranked them down far beyond
    what would be reasonable, however nearly everyone knows how to adjust hydraulic rockers.
    You'd be surprised how many still can't properly set up pushrod length and preload on a non-adjustable LS valvetrain.

    Quote Originally Posted by RonSSnova View Post
    Huh? LS rockers are non adjustable.
    Exactly.
    Jaime

  18. #18
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    What TB are you running?
    Jaime

  19. #19
    Advanced Tuner sarg's Avatar
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    Had this same issue once on mine. Was a slightly overtight throttle cable. Timing was being pulled when iac could not control it and cherry red manifolds.

  20. #20
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    I just want to update this thread and answer some questions I didn't realize were posted.

    I've found the problem to be a erratic TPS sensor at times during start up it reads 1-2% throttle position and causes the computer to pull timing as it idles higher then commanded and causes the headers to glow. I've recently found this issue and have searched and still cannot figure out the cause. I am using a new TPS and a NW102 cable tb and with the throttle screw completely backed out and the throttle closed my tps voltage is at 0.31 (low I know) when I use the screw to adjust it up to 0.47-0.50 it changes the tps % to 9 ok fine, I do the reset and got everything set as soon as I fire up the car I am back to 1% and voltage goes up to 0.55 on the scanner and car again runs differently then supposed to meaning the IAC count won't lower to control idle, actual idle is 100-200 rpm higher then commanded if you unplug the tps all is well again.

    I've got it to last a day without a issue and even taken it out for a drive but after a short trip the idle will start to hang around 1200-1400 rpm area once I unplug the tps idle returns to normal. the throttle body is nice and tight with no sticking, the tps wiring looks good, I've got 5.05v into the sensor idk, ground seems ok did get a little voltage there .011 but i wouldnt think that would cause any harm I could be wrong. My next step is to throw on a stock TB and tps and see if the tb is causing a issue.


    David - To answer you question I like the way the car sounds with the stock exhaust. The F-1 is 10x louder then the exhaust, I am pretty sure the limits of the dual dual have been met so I picked up a kooks true dual kit to install but havent made up my mind yet if I wanted to do that.

    idle/walk around clip
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3b-O...rAJsnGpdDEAaug

    Dyno pulls
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH6J...rAJsnGpdDEAaug